McLaren Success
05-21-2020, 12:46 AM
#4996
Pro
Before to get my 991.2 GT3 was considering a Mclaren too, but it felt cheap, plastic in bumpers, inside plastics/buttons, the leather and the horrible info entertainment. I always pay attention to the Macs in car meetings, I saw plety of cars with low millage and the seats looks like a 50/70k miles car, windshields cracked, leather poping from doors,etc this is what stopped to me to consider them, plus reliability problems with electric components. I love the 600lt and maybe will try one but I have to be ready to play this game. Talking with the mechanica of a shop that makes a lot of mclarens, they said yo me..stay with porsche or buy a lambo, they found a lot of details like missed bolts, components not ajusted, etc all in cars that came from the dealer to the shop with delivery miles. Hoping they can fix this quality problems, they are great cars...However will be very difficult to sell the manual 991.2 gt3 ...such a great driving car, should have to be an add on.
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Napoli (05-21-2020)
05-21-2020, 12:54 AM
#4997
You can't compare a Porsche turbo to A Chevy. Its closer to the F And M cars. Also if reliability matters to you than M cars are out.
Plus the 720's are depreciating at a ridiculous rate.
I built my 991TTS and was thrilled with it for 3 years. Ferrari I agree is on another level but price delta and dealer games have moved me away from the brand.
Plus the 720's are depreciating at a ridiculous rate.
I built my 991TTS and was thrilled with it for 3 years. Ferrari I agree is on another level but price delta and dealer games have moved me away from the brand.
and realistically exhibit (1) 991.1 GT3.............................way worse than minor grumbles with early Mclarens.
05-21-2020, 01:18 AM
#4998
Nordschleife Master
The Turbo is described as the "everyday super car" and just like the ZR1 its fast but no one would confuse either of those with a Ferrari Superfast or 720S or 765lt. The CGT is the only standout Porsche has made at least in my book.
The 918 was very effective for a short time but look at its interior - honestly it just isn't the complete package in a way the P1 or La Ferrari La Ferrari is. The 935 "replica" is really a GT2 RS in a body kit..........thats not fooling anyone.
The simple split is around design, manufacturing, materials and performance - like artwork there are those that want to buy something special, different, unique - you do not really get that with Porsche.
What you really get is top-end but not high-end and there is a difference.
So in a nutshell with cars there is a physical engagement factor and a mental engagement factor which could be crudely summarised as how it drives and how it looks.
The 918 was very effective for a short time but look at its interior - honestly it just isn't the complete package in a way the P1 or La Ferrari La Ferrari is. The 935 "replica" is really a GT2 RS in a body kit..........thats not fooling anyone.
The simple split is around design, manufacturing, materials and performance - like artwork there are those that want to buy something special, different, unique - you do not really get that with Porsche.
What you really get is top-end but not high-end and there is a difference.
So in a nutshell with cars there is a physical engagement factor and a mental engagement factor which could be crudely summarised as how it drives and how it looks.
Your arguments are purely subjective just like “art work”. The above is all in your “book”. Other books differ. Some love modern art “master pieces”. Some think it’s crap and prefer the classics. What’s different and special is in the eye of the beholder. Any buyer of a new Porsche GT car could have chosen a competing level Mac or Ferrari. They didn’t for their own reasons which when boiled down to its essence is they preferred the Porsche. I did.
In fact, as much as I like the 600LT I would not give up my RS for one. No way. Whether some bubble gum chewing Forza playing high schooler thinks it might be cooler because of its scissor doors is of 0 interest or concern to me.
If push came to shove I would buy a Perf before a Mac.
Last edited by Waxer; 05-21-2020 at 01:35 AM.
05-21-2020, 05:11 AM
#4999
Mclaren - like any manufacturer can provide a wide number of trim types as can Ferrari - Porsche can't compete in that realm and even with "exclusive" the ball is largely in their court, at their timing and at their discretion. I won't play that game with Porsche, although having said that their general choices are good and you can mix and match to your hearts content (within reason).
However, every Porsche I sit in, every one, even with the top spec trim - feels little different to a top end Audi or Merc - in fact I would argue the upper level Merc and Audi interiors are better. In fact, in my cars I have always gone for body coloured chrono and dials (amongst many other bits and bobs) - just to add some zest to the german taxi cab look (through both exclusive and mainstream).
Right here, right now I would take a 765LT over anything Porsche has got on the books that we know about .....................never been a Lambo guy
And - subjective does come into it - why wouldn't it, as soon as you choose a colour it becomes subjective -BTW, I like your GR and aurum scheme looks great, but others may not feel the same way e.g. likewise with my schemes mantis green 720S, white on on black RS etc. So design is subjective, and yet it costs if you want structurally sound, interesting shapes that are low drag but high down force and yet remain more interesting than a water drop shape with a Kam tail.
However, every Porsche I sit in, every one, even with the top spec trim - feels little different to a top end Audi or Merc - in fact I would argue the upper level Merc and Audi interiors are better. In fact, in my cars I have always gone for body coloured chrono and dials (amongst many other bits and bobs) - just to add some zest to the german taxi cab look (through both exclusive and mainstream).
Right here, right now I would take a 765LT over anything Porsche has got on the books that we know about .....................never been a Lambo guy
And - subjective does come into it - why wouldn't it, as soon as you choose a colour it becomes subjective -BTW, I like your GR and aurum scheme looks great, but others may not feel the same way e.g. likewise with my schemes mantis green 720S, white on on black RS etc. So design is subjective, and yet it costs if you want structurally sound, interesting shapes that are low drag but high down force and yet remain more interesting than a water drop shape with a Kam tail.
Last edited by groundhog; 05-21-2020 at 06:54 AM.
05-21-2020, 08:17 AM
#5000
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Before to get my 991.2 GT3 was considering a Mclaren too, but it felt cheap, plastic in bumpers, inside plastics/buttons, the leather and the horrible info entertainment. I always pay attention to the Macs in car meetings, I saw plety of cars with low millage and the seats looks like a 50/70k miles car, windshields cracked, leather poping from doors,etc this is what stopped to me to consider them, plus reliability problems with electric components. I love the 600lt and maybe will try one but I have to be ready to play this game. Talking with the mechanica of a shop that makes a lot of mclarens, they said yo me..stay with porsche or buy a lambo, they found a lot of details like missed bolts, components not ajusted, etc all in cars that came from the dealer to the shop with delivery miles. Hoping they can fix this quality problems, they are great cars...However will be very difficult to sell the manual 991.2 gt3 ...such a great driving car, should have to be an add on.
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neoprufrok (05-22-2020)
05-21-2020, 09:18 AM
#5001
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Thea above interior is 2016, and the new stuff is pretty cool. I do prefer the 675 floors are CF as it was needed to drop the weight to 2800 lbs, and I like both brands. What’s crazy the my MAC friends call my RS cheap. Love being in the middle(:
05-21-2020, 09:26 AM
#5002
Nordschleife Master
Mclaren - like any manufacturer can provide a wide number of trim types as can Ferrari - Porsche can't compete in that realm and even with "exclusive" the ball is largely in their court, at their timing and at their discretion. I won't play that game with Porsche, although having said that their general choices are good and you can mix and match to your hearts content (within reason).
However, every Porsche I sit in, every one, even with the top spec trim - feels little different to a top end Audi or Merc - in fact I would argue the upper level Merc and Audi interiors are better. In fact, in my cars I have always gone for body coloured chrono and dials (amongst many other bits and bobs) - just to add some zest to the german taxi cab look (through both exclusive and mainstream).
Right here, right now I would take a 765LT over anything Porsche has got on the books that we know about .....................never been a Lambo guy
And - subjective does come into it - why wouldn't it, as soon as you choose a colour it becomes subjective -BTW, I like your GR and aurum scheme looks great, but others may not feel the same way e.g. likewise with my schemes mantis green 720S, white on on black RS etc. So design is subjective, and yet it costs if you want structurally sound, interesting shapes that are low drag but high down force and yet remain more interesting than a water drop shape with a Kam tail.
However, every Porsche I sit in, every one, even with the top spec trim - feels little different to a top end Audi or Merc - in fact I would argue the upper level Merc and Audi interiors are better. In fact, in my cars I have always gone for body coloured chrono and dials (amongst many other bits and bobs) - just to add some zest to the german taxi cab look (through both exclusive and mainstream).
Right here, right now I would take a 765LT over anything Porsche has got on the books that we know about .....................never been a Lambo guy
And - subjective does come into it - why wouldn't it, as soon as you choose a colour it becomes subjective -BTW, I like your GR and aurum scheme looks great, but others may not feel the same way e.g. likewise with my schemes mantis green 720S, white on on black RS etc. So design is subjective, and yet it costs if you want structurally sound, interesting shapes that are low drag but high down force and yet remain more interesting than a water drop shape with a Kam tail.
Mac and F bend you over also for up graded interior options and flashy exterior options but they let you use ky first. Difference is Porsche doesn’t allow lube and they don’t even give you the courtesy of a reach around. Mac and F owners going ham for cf etc options are masochists with their money and P owners are masochists who have a grudge against their money. Mho.
Porsche has followed and stuck with a design ethos as to the 911 since day one. Spartan, durable, functional and fast. The 911 shape is legend. It is “Porsche”. They can’t make a 911 look like a 720 can they without risk? Moreover, why would they want too? The 911 shape is so loved it’s an automotive icon. While Mac may have a more exotic shape and fancy scissor doors it’s shape is not an automotive icon and the forecast for it becoming one looks bleak.
Im sure the new 765LT will be kick ***. All new cars are faster than the previous Gen. I’m sure it will retail in the $400k range. Pricey.
I personally wouldn’t spend that kind of money on a Mac a. Brand new due to abysmal resale b. in this economy c. in view of Mac’s financial woes d. in view of their past quality and reliability issues. But, hey that’s just me and that’s just my little view of it. You have different views of it. That’s fine and fair. Your $ your choice.
This doesn’t mean I don’t like Macs. Quite to the contrary. If circumstances allowed I would add one.
05-21-2020, 09:35 AM
#5003
Mclaren - like any manufacturer can provide a wide number of trim types as can Ferrari - Porsche can't compete in that realm and even with "exclusive" the ball is largely in their court, at their timing and at their discretion. I won't play that game with Porsche, although having said that their general choices are good and you can mix and match to your hearts content (within reason).
However, every Porsche I sit in, every one, even with the top spec trim - feels little different to a top end Audi or Merc - in fact I would argue the upper level Merc and Audi interiors are better. In fact, in my cars I have always gone for body coloured chrono and dials (amongst many other bits and bobs) - just to add some zest to the german taxi cab look (through both exclusive and mainstream).
Right here, right now I would take a 765LT over anything Porsche has got on the books that we know about .....................never been a Lambo guy
And - subjective does come into it - why wouldn't it, as soon as you choose a colour it becomes subjective -BTW, I like your GR and aurum scheme looks great, but others may not feel the same way e.g. likewise with my schemes mantis green 720S, white on on black RS etc. So design is subjective, and yet it costs if you want structurally sound, interesting shapes that are low drag but high down force and yet remain more interesting than a water drop shape with a Kam tail.
However, every Porsche I sit in, every one, even with the top spec trim - feels little different to a top end Audi or Merc - in fact I would argue the upper level Merc and Audi interiors are better. In fact, in my cars I have always gone for body coloured chrono and dials (amongst many other bits and bobs) - just to add some zest to the german taxi cab look (through both exclusive and mainstream).
Right here, right now I would take a 765LT over anything Porsche has got on the books that we know about .....................never been a Lambo guy
And - subjective does come into it - why wouldn't it, as soon as you choose a colour it becomes subjective -BTW, I like your GR and aurum scheme looks great, but others may not feel the same way e.g. likewise with my schemes mantis green 720S, white on on black RS etc. So design is subjective, and yet it costs if you want structurally sound, interesting shapes that are low drag but high down force and yet remain more interesting than a water drop shape with a Kam tail.
05-21-2020, 11:02 AM
#5004
Rennlist Member
I'm just excited I get to chase some .2GT3RSs and a GT2RS in my 720 around Road Atlanta tomorrow. My MP4Ss will not be of any help whatsoever, unless it rains!
05-21-2020, 11:09 AM
#5005
05-21-2020, 11:17 AM
#5006
Thank you for the admission. Subjective does come into it. 😉
Mac and F bend you over also for up graded interior options and flashy exterior options but they let you use ky first. Difference is Porsche doesn’t allow lube and they don’t even give you the courtesy of a reach around. Mac and F owners going ham for cf etc options are masochists with their money and P owners are masochists who have a grudge against their money. Mho.
Porsche has followed and stuck with a design ethos as to the 911 since day one. Spartan, durable, functional and fast. The 911 shape is legend. It is “Porsche”. They can’t make a 911 look like a 720 can they without risk? Moreover, why would they want too? The 911 shape is so loved it’s an automotive icon. While Mac may have a more exotic shape and fancy scissor doors it’s shape is not an automotive icon and the forecast for it becoming one looks bleak.
Im sure the new 765LT will be kick ***. All new cars are faster than the previous Gen. I’m sure it will retail in the $400k range. Pricey.
I personally wouldn’t spend that kind of money on a Mac a. Brand new due to abysmal resale b. in this economy c. in view of Mac’s financial woes d. in view of their past quality and reliability issues. But, hey that’s just me and that’s just my little view of it. You have different views of it. That’s fine and fair. Your $ your choice.
This doesn’t mean I don’t like Macs. Quite to the contrary. If circumstances allowed I would add one.
Mac and F bend you over also for up graded interior options and flashy exterior options but they let you use ky first. Difference is Porsche doesn’t allow lube and they don’t even give you the courtesy of a reach around. Mac and F owners going ham for cf etc options are masochists with their money and P owners are masochists who have a grudge against their money. Mho.
Porsche has followed and stuck with a design ethos as to the 911 since day one. Spartan, durable, functional and fast. The 911 shape is legend. It is “Porsche”. They can’t make a 911 look like a 720 can they without risk? Moreover, why would they want too? The 911 shape is so loved it’s an automotive icon. While Mac may have a more exotic shape and fancy scissor doors it’s shape is not an automotive icon and the forecast for it becoming one looks bleak.
Im sure the new 765LT will be kick ***. All new cars are faster than the previous Gen. I’m sure it will retail in the $400k range. Pricey.
I personally wouldn’t spend that kind of money on a Mac a. Brand new due to abysmal resale b. in this economy c. in view of Mac’s financial woes d. in view of their past quality and reliability issues. But, hey that’s just me and that’s just my little view of it. You have different views of it. That’s fine and fair. Your $ your choice.
This doesn’t mean I don’t like Macs. Quite to the contrary. If circumstances allowed I would add one.
But I have to say, I have polarity on this - my RS is excellent, I may call it a tool but it is truly excellent - I wouldn't have chosen it if I didn't believe that to be the case. Likewise with my 720S, it is also excellent but in different ways, nontheless it is truly fantastic - granted mantis may not be a colour people warm to - but the juxtaposition of black and green in that form is sensational
Always good to have the conversation
05-21-2020, 12:52 PM
#5007
Nordschleife Master
05-21-2020, 12:56 PM
#5008
Nordschleife Master
Of course bend over over comes in to it - but we're adults and smart enough to work out what works for us. To be frank we're lucky enough to have these first world problems - by the same token we have done the hard yards to allow us to have this conversation.
But I have to say, I have polarity on this - my RS is excellent, I may call it a tool but it is truly excellent - I wouldn't have chosen it if I didn't believe that to be the case. Likewise with my 720S, it is also excellent but in different ways, nontheless it is truly fantastic - granted mantis may not be a colour people warm to - but the juxtaposition of black and green in that form is sensational
Always good to have the conversation
But I have to say, I have polarity on this - my RS is excellent, I may call it a tool but it is truly excellent - I wouldn't have chosen it if I didn't believe that to be the case. Likewise with my 720S, it is also excellent but in different ways, nontheless it is truly fantastic - granted mantis may not be a colour people warm to - but the juxtaposition of black and green in that form is sensational
Always good to have the conversation
My tastes in track/race cars is a little dated though. 
But..in the right hands (that would exclude me) they can really motor. The "Bitch" and "Thor" below respectively at Watkins in better times. Sigh...
05-21-2020, 03:13 PM
#5009
Before to get my 991.2 GT3 was considering a Mclaren too, but it felt cheap, plastic in bumpers, inside plastics/buttons, the leather and the horrible info entertainment. I always pay attention to the Macs in car meetings, I saw plety of cars with low millage and the seats looks like a 50/70k miles car, windshields cracked, leather poping from doors,etc this is what stopped to me to consider them, plus reliability problems with electric components. I love the 600lt and maybe will try one but I have to be ready to play this game. Talking with the mechanica of a shop that makes a lot of mclarens, they said yo me..stay with porsche or buy a lambo, they found a lot of details like missed bolts, components not ajusted, etc all in cars that came from the dealer to the shop with delivery miles. Hoping they can fix this quality problems, they are great cars...However will be very difficult to sell the manual 991.2 gt3 ...such a great driving car, should have to be an add on.
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05-21-2020, 04:08 PM
#5010
Nordschleife Master
We have owned McLarens for a decade now. Never had any problems with any of them. I just posted an article detailing a decade of maintenance costs covering everything from our first 12C Spider to the Senna: https://karenable.com
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Napoli (05-21-2020)