Consolidated 991RS thread
03-04-2015, 11:52 AM
#6091
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Evo Andreas Preuninger
"Very, Very, Verrrry conservative 500 hp"
Porsche 911 GT3 RS - Geneva Motor Show - YouTube
"Very, Very, Verrrry conservative 500 hp"
Porsche 911 GT3 RS - Geneva Motor Show - YouTube
03-04-2015, 11:57 AM
#6094
Burning Brakes
03-04-2015, 12:10 PM
#6095
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Top Gear Interview with AP: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/p...how-2015-03-03
Some interesting comments.
"I love turbocharged engines but for linearity, response, the emotional side, and for myself as a human being, I prefer a naturally aspirated engine, always. And I think most customers are like that too.
"And we're lucky that the board are total car nuts. They understand the importance and the value of this car so if all of our competition goes turbocharged, that leaves us with a unique selling point."
"The ultimate track car will always have a PDK in it because it is simply faster. The GT3 has tough competition, and we like to be the fastest. Motorsport is our heritage, and that is our belief."
Inherent contradiction in the above comments - speed verses emotion - and echo the same comments he made about the manual trans when people challenged him on why 997 GT3 didn't have PDK. Let's hope he doesn't do a similar flip flop. That said, I suspect when forced we're more likely to see electric motors incoporated with a naturally aspirated motor.
Total weight saving over the standard 991-gen GT3 is only 10kg, but Porsche is at pains to point out that it's the reduction in the centre of gravity that's most important, hence the focus on reducing weight higher up on the car with the adoption of a magnesium roof and carbon panels for the nose and engine cover.
"We can produce serious downforce at the front end which allows us to have a rear wing much higher than it has been before", Preuninger tells us.
"Anyone can put a big spoiler on a car, but normally you'd then get an imbalanced car. We find as much as possible at the front to be able to balance it out. Overall, downforce is more than double here over the previous generation GT3 RS 4.0. That's 350kg at 186mph compared to 170kg."
CG, aero, downforce. Look forward to getting pinned.
Preuninger reckons it's the first 911 that can be compared to true supercars, though given how much we like GT3 RSs of old, we're inclined to challenge him on that. But what does he now consider competition?
"The Corvette Z06 is a great car and package. I'm a muscle car fan, always was. But I think a real competitor is the Ferrari Speciale. I don't consider the Nissan GT-R too much any more, it has a lot of weight! The Mercedes AMG GT is a great car but it won't get close to the GT3 RS on track. But they are working on a Black Series I'm sure. Be my guest, I say. I'm curious..."
Yup. But in muscle car space I'd add flat-plane crank Shelby GT350 as most compelling thing out there at the moment.
Some interesting comments.
"I love turbocharged engines but for linearity, response, the emotional side, and for myself as a human being, I prefer a naturally aspirated engine, always. And I think most customers are like that too.
"And we're lucky that the board are total car nuts. They understand the importance and the value of this car so if all of our competition goes turbocharged, that leaves us with a unique selling point."
"The ultimate track car will always have a PDK in it because it is simply faster. The GT3 has tough competition, and we like to be the fastest. Motorsport is our heritage, and that is our belief."
Inherent contradiction in the above comments - speed verses emotion - and echo the same comments he made about the manual trans when people challenged him on why 997 GT3 didn't have PDK. Let's hope he doesn't do a similar flip flop. That said, I suspect when forced we're more likely to see electric motors incoporated with a naturally aspirated motor.
Total weight saving over the standard 991-gen GT3 is only 10kg, but Porsche is at pains to point out that it's the reduction in the centre of gravity that's most important, hence the focus on reducing weight higher up on the car with the adoption of a magnesium roof and carbon panels for the nose and engine cover.
"We can produce serious downforce at the front end which allows us to have a rear wing much higher than it has been before", Preuninger tells us.
"Anyone can put a big spoiler on a car, but normally you'd then get an imbalanced car. We find as much as possible at the front to be able to balance it out. Overall, downforce is more than double here over the previous generation GT3 RS 4.0. That's 350kg at 186mph compared to 170kg."
CG, aero, downforce. Look forward to getting pinned.
Preuninger reckons it's the first 911 that can be compared to true supercars, though given how much we like GT3 RSs of old, we're inclined to challenge him on that. But what does he now consider competition?
"The Corvette Z06 is a great car and package. I'm a muscle car fan, always was. But I think a real competitor is the Ferrari Speciale. I don't consider the Nissan GT-R too much any more, it has a lot of weight! The Mercedes AMG GT is a great car but it won't get close to the GT3 RS on track. But they are working on a Black Series I'm sure. Be my guest, I say. I'm curious..."
Yup. But in muscle car space I'd add flat-plane crank Shelby GT350 as most compelling thing out there at the moment.
Last edited by Nizer; 03-04-2015 at 01:10 PM.
03-04-2015, 12:11 PM
#6096
Why would one limit the revving due to the unfortunate engine fires of the regular GT3? As far as I recall, the high revving had nothing to do with oil leaks that started those fires.
03-04-2015, 12:12 PM
#6097
Nordschleife Master
Is the 1420kg number representative of lightest spec or not? We don't know but it's a big potential swing factor.
Using noted and/or approx weight savings:
Lion Battery: -30lb
PCCB: -40lb
A/C delete: -35lb
Radio Delete: -7lb
That's an additional 110ish lbs that could be taken out of the car if not included in the 3,124lb (1420kg). But I suspect some if not all is already included in quoted weight.
Using noted and/or approx weight savings:
Lion Battery: -30lb
PCCB: -40lb
A/C delete: -35lb
Radio Delete: -7lb
That's an additional 110ish lbs that could be taken out of the car if not included in the 3,124lb (1420kg). But I suspect some if not all is already included in quoted weight.
03-04-2015, 12:17 PM
#6098
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That is what I am thinking. Hey, if the motor is better why limit the revving to whatever they have limited it to? If the internals are lighter they can handle the higher revving, no? AP is a great marketer, you don't present these cars unless you are a good marketer and presenter.
Why would one limit the revving due to the unfortunate engine fires of the regular GT3? As far as I recall, the high revving had nothing to do with oil leaks that started those fires.
Why would one limit the revving due to the unfortunate engine fires of the regular GT3? As far as I recall, the high revving had nothing to do with oil leaks that started those fires.
03-04-2015, 12:25 PM
#6099
While I have nothing against wrapping a car, to do it right (many don't) it can cost a 1/3 to 1/2 the price of PTS.....and in my opinion it doesn't substitute PTS program at all other than sampling a special color you don't really permenantly have. I think wrapping a car is for those that really want the standard colors available and want to change for a year or two then know they can get back to actual color or change it up again but then again I have never wrapped a car so what do I know?
Plan C = Speciale.
03-04-2015, 12:26 PM
#6100
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Of course they are! Heck, we (car enthusiasts) complain when they are good marketers and we complain when companies they are not (i.e. McLaren).
Anything beyond basic transportation is marketing to an aspirational buyer. The entire Porsche lineup is such. The GT3 and GT3RS are the apex of marketing to the aspirational buyer for Porsche. Arguably the Cup car is just as much for dreamers, catering to a different level of aspiration.
Just like any other successful product company, you can decide at what level you want to participate.
Anything beyond basic transportation is marketing to an aspirational buyer. The entire Porsche lineup is such. The GT3 and GT3RS are the apex of marketing to the aspirational buyer for Porsche. Arguably the Cup car is just as much for dreamers, catering to a different level of aspiration.
Just like any other successful product company, you can decide at what level you want to participate.
03-04-2015, 12:27 PM
#6101
Is the 1420kg number representative of lightest spec or not? We don't know but it's a big potential swing factor.
Using noted and/or approx weight savings:
Lion Battery: -30lb
PCCB: -40lb
A/C delete: -35lb
Radio Delete: -7lb
That's an additional 110ish lbs that could be taken out of the car if not included in the 3,124lb (1420kg). But I suspect some if not all is already included in quoted weight.
Using noted and/or approx weight savings:
Lion Battery: -30lb
PCCB: -40lb
A/C delete: -35lb
Radio Delete: -7lb
That's an additional 110ish lbs that could be taken out of the car if not included in the 3,124lb (1420kg). But I suspect some if not all is already included in quoted weight.
03-04-2015, 12:31 PM
#6102
That is what I am thinking. Hey, if the motor is better why limit the revving to whatever they have limited it to? If the internals are lighter they can handle the higher revving, no? AP is a great marketer, you don't present these cars unless you are a good marketer and presenter.
Why would one limit the revving due to the unfortunate engine fires of the regular GT3? As far as I recall, the high revving had nothing to do with oil leaks that started those fires.
Why would one limit the revving due to the unfortunate engine fires of the regular GT3? As far as I recall, the high revving had nothing to do with oil leaks that started those fires.
Engine speed is not lessened due to the longer stroke in the 4.0L. Credit to Grant and Macca, who previously posted this in this thread.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...87519884,d.cGU
Evidenced by what AP said in his interview, the engine has the same basic architecture, with some improved parts; stronger, lighter crankshaft, rods, etc. The RS was built as a track weapon first.
03-04-2015, 12:33 PM
#6103
Race Director
Top Gear Interview with AP: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/p...how-2015-03-03
Some interesting comments.
"I love turbocharged engines but for linearity, response, the emotional side, and for myself as a human being, I prefer a naturally aspirated engine, always. And I think most customers are like that too.
"And we're lucky that the board are total car nuts. They understand the importance and the value of this car so if all of our competition goes turbocharged, that leaves us with a unique selling point."
"The ultimate track car will always have a PDK in it because it is simply faster. The GT3 has tough competition, and we like to be the fastest. Motorsport is our heritage, and that is our belief."
Inherent contradiction in the above comments - speed verses emotion - and echo the same comments he made about the manual trans when people challenged him on why 997 GT3 didn't have PDK. Let's hope he doesn't do a similar flip flop. That said, I suspect when forced we're more likely to see electric motors incoporated with a naturally aspirated motor.
Total weight saving over the standard 991-gen GT3 is only 10kg, but Porsche is at pains to point out that it's the reduction in the centre of gravity that's most important, hence the focus on reducing weight higher up on the car with the adoption of a magnesium roof and carbon panels for the nose and engine cover.
"We can produce serious downforce at the front end which allows us to have a rear wing much higher than it has been before", Preuninger tells us.
"Anyone can put a big spoiler on a car, but normally you'd then get an imbalanced car. We find as much as possible at the front to be able to balance it out. Overall, downforce is more than double here over the previous generation GT3 RS 4.0. That's 350kg at 186mph compared to 170kg."
CG, aero, downforce. Look forward to getting pinned.
Preuninger reckons it's the first 911 that can be compared to true supercars, though given how much we like GT3 RSs of old, we're inclined to challenge him on that. But what does he now consider competition?
"The Corvette Z06 is a great car and package. I'm a muscle car fan, always was. But I think a real competitor is the Ferrari Speciale. I don't consider the Nissan GT-R too much any more, it has a lot of weight! The Mercedes AMG GT is a great car but it won't get close to the GT3 RS on track. But they are working on a Black Series I'm sure. Be my guest, I say. I'm curious..."
Yup.
Some interesting comments.
"I love turbocharged engines but for linearity, response, the emotional side, and for myself as a human being, I prefer a naturally aspirated engine, always. And I think most customers are like that too.
"And we're lucky that the board are total car nuts. They understand the importance and the value of this car so if all of our competition goes turbocharged, that leaves us with a unique selling point."
"The ultimate track car will always have a PDK in it because it is simply faster. The GT3 has tough competition, and we like to be the fastest. Motorsport is our heritage, and that is our belief."
Inherent contradiction in the above comments - speed verses emotion - and echo the same comments he made about the manual trans when people challenged him on why 997 GT3 didn't have PDK. Let's hope he doesn't do a similar flip flop. That said, I suspect when forced we're more likely to see electric motors incoporated with a naturally aspirated motor.
Total weight saving over the standard 991-gen GT3 is only 10kg, but Porsche is at pains to point out that it's the reduction in the centre of gravity that's most important, hence the focus on reducing weight higher up on the car with the adoption of a magnesium roof and carbon panels for the nose and engine cover.
"We can produce serious downforce at the front end which allows us to have a rear wing much higher than it has been before", Preuninger tells us.
"Anyone can put a big spoiler on a car, but normally you'd then get an imbalanced car. We find as much as possible at the front to be able to balance it out. Overall, downforce is more than double here over the previous generation GT3 RS 4.0. That's 350kg at 186mph compared to 170kg."
CG, aero, downforce. Look forward to getting pinned.
Preuninger reckons it's the first 911 that can be compared to true supercars, though given how much we like GT3 RSs of old, we're inclined to challenge him on that. But what does he now consider competition?
"The Corvette Z06 is a great car and package. I'm a muscle car fan, always was. But I think a real competitor is the Ferrari Speciale. I don't consider the Nissan GT-R too much any more, it has a lot of weight! The Mercedes AMG GT is a great car but it won't get close to the GT3 RS on track. But they are working on a Black Series I'm sure. Be my guest, I say. I'm curious..."
Yup.
electric is the way
how long before AP's group gets their hands on a 960, 2020???
03-04-2015, 12:51 PM
#6104
Rennlist Member
That is what I am thinking. Hey, if the motor is better why limit the revving to whatever they have limited it to? If the internals are lighter they can handle the higher revving, no? AP is a great marketer, you don't present these cars unless you are a good marketer and presenter.
Why would one limit the revving due to the unfortunate engine fires of the regular GT3? As far as I recall, the high revving had nothing to do with oil leaks that started those fires.
Why would one limit the revving due to the unfortunate engine fires of the regular GT3? As far as I recall, the high revving had nothing to do with oil leaks that started those fires.
I ask because I don't get why a lot of people are saying they are turned off by this. In my opinion this is not a big deal. On the racetrack the difference of a 9k and 8.8K redline will make no difference in lap times. It is more of a bragging rights at the bar type of deal. "Well my GT3 revs to 9K and your Ferrari only revs to 8500 RPM so I am king of the bar." The reason for a lower limit is simple, decrease of bearing wear on a motor with a longer stroke. This motor will take the 9K RPM rev limit. It won't take it for extended periods due to the extra wear this puts on the rod bearings. This part of physics is not limited to a Porsche. It applies to every engine on the planet. Even at this lower RPM the piston speed is raised on the new GT3 RS. Raised piston speed means more stress on the motor and the sum of its parts. Seems to me like Porsche is doing both great marketing and great engineering. To get a motor with higher piston speeds to spin and hold together at 8800 RPMs sounds good to me especially on the street. They have marketed the 9000 RPM limit on the standard GT3 so well that it is the new Porsche KoolAid we all are drinking.
03-04-2015, 12:56 PM
#6105
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Pts
As per AP from the EVO video, the only explanation I see in the ''500hp, very very conservative'' is that they don't want to cannibalize TURBO territory neither killing the old mezger 
in the release of the first new DFI engine. 
he looks so confident in the weight saved and reinvested in the car with the special mention "test it and you'll see" that I am pretty sure this RS is something pretty special.
8800rpm is a non subject.
I am excited to see the price here as well as PTS opportunity
in the release of the first new DFI engine. he looks so confident in the weight saved and reinvested in the car with the special mention "test it and you'll see" that I am pretty sure this RS is something pretty special.
8800rpm is a non subject.
I am excited to see the price here as well as PTS opportunity