When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Yes, do more with less. Always the Porsche way all the back to 550 RS. One of the things I really like about Porsche.
Yup, sum of the parts...
Road cars from mass manufacturers start out with massively conflicting design requirements, most obvious being costs, regulatory, and marketability. With a nod to this my critique would be the following.
1) Weight:
Swap to 991 platform and 9A1 engine architecture yielded an inherent 130lb weight saving over 997/Mezger. It would've been nice to see more of this retained in the new RS.
PDK added the most weight to the new platform. How about a lightened case of titanium or magnesium as we see Ducati do? Cost obviously and to a lesser extent maybe safety in the case of magnesium.
This RS is more extreme than the last continuing the trend of each successive RS, but again Porsche checked up with the interior. In this regard, I like Ferrari's Scuderia/Speciale interior treatment. How about simple carbon door cards, bin the Panamera console in place of a simple switch panel on dash, gut the carpet/padding? But cost, marketability, comfort all get hit.
2). No mention of lightened flywheel. Again, waiting on final specs and performance claims.
3). Brakes:
No PFC brake option. The PFC brakes on the 991 Cup are a significant step up over the prior road-based brakes and really moved the game on. For real track work you really don't want PCCBs. It would've been nice to see these brakes offered as standard or upgrade.
4). Motorsport application:
Waiting on the 2016 FIA/ACO reg changes is what the whispers say. It'll be a disappointment if they don't follow through with a direct link with the new engine, but I also know this matters more for some than others.
End of the day it'll be a great car and still likely the best track value out there that also carries a high cache.
100% agree with all of that (particularly the interior which for me on the RS is still too production car like). This car will be awesome.
100% agree with all of that (particularly the interior which for me on the RS is still too production car like). This car will be awesome.
Yep, I do wish they would do something like the Speciale interior - Ferrari have done a good job there with the mix of lightweight stuff and all - the floor is good too; and then you can still spec it out all bling if you want too!
Agree with comments by Guru Nizer and Guru Macca. I miss the more weight-saving focused Clubsport-versions of old (964 NGT, 964 RS 3,8 Clubsport, 993 RS Clubsport), and even more the original 2,7 RS. Now thats weight-saving! The moniker is so much more about weight-saving than about horses.
If we are to believe the current Clubsport is all about safety on the track ... while keeping all the weighty stuff that has nothing to do with track-use ...
I'm thinking that the 991 Gt3 (non RS) by comparison, seems to be turning out to be a real bargin.
yes, I agree. It might be tougher for me to give up my standard 3 for an RS if successfully allocated. Sounds like the standard stereo...2x25 watts and 4 speakers will be a real big piece of steaming dog sheet. I hope they have at least the sound package plus like the standard 3. Unlikely I suppose. 2 standard colors is disappointing too.
The thing is, Porsche seems to have stopped building "scary" cars. The Carrera GT was a very pure car, and a real handful for any skill level to use fully, and it took decent skill even to tootle around it. However I think top management feels like it backfired- there were picket lines outside of Porsche dealers if you can believe that!
Even before Paul Walker's death I believe there was a conscious effort to make the current generation of top sports cars more friendly to the skill level of Porsche's average customer. The 918 and the GT3 are the result, cars that are an order of magnitude more accessible to someone with average skill than their predecessors. These cars have generally been very well received, but this begs the question: are we ever going to see cars like the GT2 RS and Carrera GT again from Porsche, cars that require serious skill to get the most out of.
Technically it'd be dead easy for Porsche to get 650, 700 or even more power from their engines. Politically, however, it may well now be impossible. I know of at least one hardcore, true enthusiast's Porsche that was recently proposed- it died in the boardroom. It makes me wonder if we've already seen the last "professional grade" cars from Porsche. Is it consumer grade from now on?
Pete, can you elaborate in any way on what proposal that was? Was it a 911 derivative, the 960, or something entirely new?
Also, the 8,800 rpm limit disappoints me less thanks to your math relating to piston speeds. In your opinion, is this attributed to a cost 'savings' on the part of the manufacturer (Porsche) or are we seeing the bleeding edge of technology here in regards to metallurgy science. In essence, if Porsche, Ferrari, etc., upgraded the metal used in these high(est) of performance street engines (pistons, rods, rod bolts, crankshaft, etc...) offered on the market today, could we see engines redlining at 10,000 or more RPM with durability remaining the same?
yes, I agree. It might be tougher for me to give up my standard 3 for an RS if successfully allocated. Sounds like the standard stereo...2x25 watts and 4 speakers will be a real big piece of steaming dog sheet. I hope they have at least the sound package plus like the standard 3. Unlikely I suppose. 2 standard colors is disappointing too.
You could comfortably say that the standard stereo fits in with the rest of the spec of the car... Out of date!
Honestly who cares about the stereo. I've had my .1 RS for a year and a half and i have turned the stereo on maybe once. Between the engine, exhaust, tranny, listening to music is the last think i'd want to do.
The 991 RS will be a great car, but unfortunately no manual turned me off. I get PDK is the way of the future and it's faster and all of that, just not for me. The car should be very fast though, not the fastest compared to some of the other exotics but at that price it won't be beat. I wouldn't worry about the power at all.
Honestly who cares about the stereo. I've had my .1 RS for a year and a half and i have turned the stereo on maybe once. Between the engine, exhaust, tranny, listening to music is the last think i'd want to do.
The 991 RS will be a great car, but unfortunately no manual turned me off. I get PDK is the way of the future and it's faster and all of that, just not for me. The car should be very fast though, not the fastest compared to some of the other exotics but at that price it won't be beat. I wouldn't worry about the power at all.
It's kinda like who cares about a manual car now...all opinion. I love PDK-S (and shifting with paddles) AND having music playing. To each their own
Honestly who cares about the stereo. I've had my .1 RS for a year and a half and i have turned the stereo on maybe once. Between the engine, exhaust, tranny, listening to music is the last think i'd want to do.
The 991 RS will be a great car, but unfortunately no manual turned me off. I get PDK is the way of the future and it's faster and all of that, just not for me. The car should be very fast though, not the fastest compared to some of the other exotics but at that price it won't be beat. I wouldn't worry about the power at all.
No music on interstate trips gets a bit boring. That said, this RS standard stereo is the same as the regular 3. Perhaps they will offer the sound package plus for some volume and frequency extension as an option.
I really like the idea of center console delete. That would be a great option. Make it more Ferrari Stradale/scud like! And actually one of the things I don't like about the 1.3. Looks to much like a Panamera to me. And radio and nav in an RS is a absolute Nono for me!
I really like the idea of center console delete. That would be a great option. Make it more Ferrari Stradale/scud like! And actually one of the things I don't like about the 1.3. Looks to much like a Panamera to me. And radio and nav in an RS is a absolute Nono for me!
Had that in my 996.2-3. Made a huge difference for my long legs. This 991 car has much more room in the foot box area.
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
The (only) real big difference between 991 GT3 and the next RS
are the rear Turbo like fenders
as AP said years ago is the aero side where they worked about this RS the rest is more or less the same as current GT3
Ok do not expect to see on a dyno the added value
(either for fiscal reasons there s no point to kill yourself in the foot)
Maybe not known in US but in many Countries you ll be charged in yearly heavy taxes
for every pony your car has
So if regulators are not aware/able to suck taxes from whatever
aero improvement (if any confirned but then why they added air holes resistance which we know will make the car slower introducing the turbo holes if perf decrease not balanced via whatever vortex system?)
So the only real judgement will come from those whom will drive the RS
Looks like Lava Orange is non-standard upcharge color.
Yes...that's expected!
Originally Posted by usctrojanGT3
Why only 2 exterior colors?
Originally Posted by Nizer
Logical conclusion is the presumed Lava Orange release color (plus the mystery purple if it appears) will be an upcharge just as the Grey Black release color on the 997 3.8 RS was.
The better analogy is what PAG offered when the MY2007 .1 997 gt3 RS was announced in 2006. Let me borrow some content from one of my earlier posts on this subject to illustrate the point:
Initial Exterior Color & Cost offered on the MY2007 .1 997 gt3 RS:
'Black' - $0
'Silver' - $690
'RS Orange' - $3040
'Rs Green' - $3040
Right after these four color choices for the gt3 RS were announced, dealers & customers demanded that Porsche allow 'Carrara White' (the white hue then standard) to be specified. The actual up-charge for 'Carrara White' was MORE than for 'RS Orange/Black' or 'RS Green/Black' combos, both 'special colors' which where initially the most expensive options offered on the MY2007 .1 997 gt3 RS at $3,040. So 'Carrara White', a standard $0 cost on any other 997 model of its period, cost $4,315 on the .1 997 gt3 RS (basically the cost of PTS in any other 997/987 model at the time). And if you wanted the wheels, rear view mirrors & rear wing trim painted in deviating 'Black', it cost you even more!
It was not possible to get PTS on first year of .1 997 gt3 RS. True 'PTS' on the 997 gt3 RS didn't come into its own until later...with the .2 gt3 RS 3.8! A few gt3 RS in MY2010 you see in PTS. But the majority of the PTS gt3 RS's came to us in MY2011, including many examples found among the final batch of 4.0 Limited Editions!
Interestingly, the base gt3 model was offered in at least one unique PTS color (at full PTS pricing) in MY2008. That color was 'RS Orange'. I am personally not aware of any other PTS color allowed on the base .1 997 gt3 that model '08 year...or in earlier .1 997 gt3's in the previous few years!
So in passing, it was always doubtful that PTS would have been offered on the MY2015 991 gt3 RS. I have been saying for a long time on this forum based on past Porsche history. And now that PAG has experienced 'issues' and delayed PTS until at least next June (perhaps starting once again with MY2016 regular .2 991/992 production), you can literally kiss PTS goodbye on this MY2015 version of the RS! On the other hand, you probably will get at least FOUR color choices that will rival the .1 997 gt3 RS in 'desirability' and 'rarity' factor. And for the new 991 RS, its air inflow/outflow dark trim in rear & front fenders will offer marvelous contrast against the lighter & brighter exterior paint choices (e.g. 'Blutorange' or 'Lava Orange'). So celebrate!
Standard colour choices are a little limiting. I can see many will have to pay extra for the Lava Orange with colour keyed rear cage (no doubt an exorbitant extra cost item!). Porsche are a bit cheeky.
Correctamundo!
Originally Posted by Nizer
Fingers crossed they go with Satin over Gloss to differentiate.
I don't expect Porsche to offer 'Satin over Gloss' on this model at the present time. And if they were to experiment with 'Satin' or 'Frost' paints, I don't think they would chose to do it with a model that will rely so heavily in subcontracted body panels (like this gt3 RS) that are assembled & painted off-site rather than at Porsche's own in-house factory paint facilities in Zuffenhausen.
Originally Posted by Nizer
No mention of black wheel option but assumed given availability on base GT3.
Yes, I would assume a black wheel option will be offered, perhaps as part of 'Special Color' option which might include 'Black' trim!
Originally Posted by Nizer
At this point leaning towards GT Silver. A color option always at the top of my list but could never stomach paying the mark-up.
You are the exception. In my estimation, the two expected special colors ('Lava/Blutorange' & 'WhatEverOther') will be the most popular & will sell the most!
Originally Posted by dark knight
standard colors white and silver , does that mean the other colors are an option, or considered PTS?…I must have black
Will be interesting to see this play out. Because the abundance of black trim in the body chassis, I suspect 'Black' will not be initially offered because it doesn't provide the desired color 'contrast' against the black body trim. In effect, these innovative design elements visually disappear!
Originally Posted by Nizer
What we have so far suggests White and GT Silver standard no cost, Lava Orange and Mystery Purple an upcharge, and all else falls to PTS bucket.
I don't anticipate PTS in the initial first year of this model...but we will see. I expect 'White' at no cost...but it would not surprise me if 'GT Silver' is a US$710 up charge. And the 'Lava/BlutOrange' and 'WhatEverOther' should come it at the regular 'special color' price of US$3140...or higher.
02-21-2015, 01:40 PM
