I am a serious 997 track driver.

I don't have issues with the 991 gt3. However I have not ordered it.

Mainly because its a brand-new car and all the mistakes will be in it.

I will miss the race engine and the manual gearbox. I presume it will be succeeded by better stuff. A better engine, and a race-derived PDK or whatever the hell it is. Anyone know what the RSR / GT3R / 991 Cup use?

I'm sure the car will be great.

 

I dont believe there have been catastrophic engine failures. As stated in my prior posts this is a parts upgrade for durability as I understand it, and it has been a work in progress at the factory for a number of months ago hence Sept customer car production did not start.

Peter. If you track your cars for 40-50 times a year as you say then you are buying the wrong car period for your usage. You need a dedicated track car for that amount of work (ex CUP car ideal) and expecting any predominately road designed car to do 50-70 laps a week at a race track in the hands of a driving god is ridiculous LOL. You must be bored of that by now surely you are ready for a race series? "Fit for Purpose" is a valid statement here and I really dont think Porsche ever intended any GT3 to be taken to the track and thrashed for 200 miles a weekend indefinitely.

Like Mike I agree this will all end up a storm in a tea cup by the time that the real issues are known and again we will be at that juncture we seem to get to on these threads. Of course as soon as customer cars arrive we will know for sure.

What I find fascinating is there are now three high profile race drivers I know have ordered the 991 GT3 including Dario who has made his order known in the press. I know there are a few on this board who consider themselves "serious racers" but lets face it this is the coffee & DE crowd on here (me included as I track but not race in a series). It seems strange to me that some of our own driving gods are concerned about durability when others who are possibly better informed are not. Also I find it strange that people say they are going off to consider ordering other new release cars for track work (Z06 etc) but surely these cars have new tech which is relatively unproven too.

Im not sure where this warranty thing comes from but its the least thing on my mind. When I buy a car like this I follow the 10% wealth rule as stated in previous thread. If you cant afford to have $150K totally at risk on teh track or if loosing that $150K is going to have material impact to your fiscal health and your lifestyle then dont put it on the track (uninsured, warranty concerns etc). Go buy a 50K ex 996 Cup car and thrash it to bits. As discussed earlier, I would expect anyone buying a brand new 991 GT3 to have a net worth able to shoulder the expenditure should it become a "write off", but I understand in the US particularly with cheap lines of credit etc that for many this may be their most valuable asset after the house they live in....if that were me Id be in the Miata Cup with a $7K MX5 I think!

 

^ Valid points here, but I disagree that a GT3 shouldn't be expected to handle 50 hard track days a year, if cared for properly.

 

Yet for the past 12-13 years that's basically what Porsche sold us, a cup car with an interior, some creature comforts and some slightly dulled down suspension/aero to make it road compliant... With appropriate maintenance GT cars have been up to this level of use till now (naturally with race car like wear and tear on various components which is perfectly acceptable)... Thats what seperates them from any other make of car.This is the trend some of us here are hoping will continue....

Not everyone wants trailers, support staff and the headaches of running a race car... sometimes arrive and drive just works

 

I disagree and I suspect those at Porsche would do to. The GT3 is heavy, has street geo and rubber mount compliance. If you want to go to the track every week of the year and rack up 100-200 track miles a week - there are far lighter, more responsive and cheaper platforms to run with. Moreover 50 track days a year is ridiculous - most people would have moved onto a series by this stage and be thick in the middle of a grid of closely locked in competition learning about race lines and getting touched up etc.

My understanding of the RS and GT3 platform is these are street cars that can be taken to the track a few times a month an enjoyed. They will not be the fastest cars available but they will be robust enough to manage that dual duty if well cared for and maintained.

How many GT3 owners on these boards track there cars 12,000 km a year? Im betting non more than 1 or 2.And thats on these boards. How many days do you get a year Chris? Im betting its more tan my 8-9 (I have to fly in fly out for mine unfortunately) but do you really do more than say 15-20 track events a year in your GT3? Honestly?

 

^ I have three tracks within 1.5 hrs drive, 5 tracks within 2 hrs, about 10 tracks within 6 hrs (yes, I'm very lucky). Not hard to get to around 50 days/yr with that proximity, and I know plenty of people who do 30 to 50 days a year (including me).

 

Where is this? I need an excuse to move out of Kalifornia.

 

probably germany

i don't agree on the 50 days a year though.

if you are doing 50 days a year, then your upkeep costs will rival a true race car running 6 race weekends a year. just ONE of those weekends will drill more instruction and pace into your driving than 1000 track days.

IMO

 

Whatisit? 30 or 50? Thats every weekend of the year except Xmas weekend and New Years weekend or its every other weekend. Cant be hard to know.

I still maintain anyone doing 50 full day track days a year in a GT3 has rocks in their head. By this stage you are either bored of no competitive driving or broke.

Down under most guys start with one day a month and after 12 months may move to 15-18 times a year (National race meets mean the weekends are out of action for much of Summer). After that we a). 40% of the time loose them to a national series (i.e. they buy a race car and decide to become competitive at whatever level they feel comfortable), b). 30% they get bored and find another hobby or c), 30% they just keep going round and round and enjoy the circuit for its social benefits bit also they constantly improve and hot rod their ride to get faster and faster usually starting and ending with an older air-cooled platform for involvement and challenge.

Those who buy the latest GT3 to constantly do 50 no competition track days a year ought to save some money and by Playstation IMHO LOL! Seriously - even Pete, that must wear off after a few years no? Surely its tempting to buy a stripped out 944s2Turbo race car and do 997 Gt3 times around Thunderhill or something? Or tarmac rally (do you guys have Targas?) or what about hill climbes (Pikes Peak is famous for Kiwi Rod Millen who now is back in NZ and has his won AutoX stage on his home driveway). What about classic racing (time rials). Surely something has goyt to be better than flogging a factory road spec GT3 weighing 1370kg around a track 50 times a year?

 

My biggest limiting factor the moment is work but my current strike rate is 1 track day per month so probably 10-12 days a year BUT I'm the first out on that track and usually being ushered off at the end of the day... A typical track day outing for me is at least 400km, and commonly 500kms... Thats just track and not including the 250km round trip there and back... So guessing 4500-5000 track kms per yr...

i'm sure there are some guys here doubling that figure for sure but probably lucky enough to spread it out over a greater number of days.


ps. for the record, the motorsport techs were pretty sure my car saw more track mileage than the cup cars they service... Thats why I want it cup car robust

 

Chris. That's precisely what I would have expected and consistent with myself and others (a couple of 997.2 GT3 guys our group would typically do 10-12 days a year as the live in NZ). Our average track length is around 3km (1.20s) and we do 15 mins sessions, usually 6-7 in a day (i.e. there are usually 3-4 groups running 15-18 mins sessions). So we would clock up around 270km in a day if there are no incidents. Call is 3300km track kms a year (12 outings).

To me this is typical usage and the GT3 fits this bill with a dual road/fast touring life well within its fit for purpose design envelope and within reasonable running costs. Triple this then add some and you are talking very different metric indeed. Ive know of one 996.1 GT3 that was purchased new and used like this - it did 40,000 track Kms over three years the owner going from zero to hero and then moving into a 997 Cup car and contesting the Supercup series and that car was so worn out by the end of all of that (well maintained but no longer had many original suspension, nor brake or interior factory items left ion or on it) that it sold for a pittance and became a but of an unwanted bastard child on the market - its still there too on Trade Me in silver asking 60k km - has a MK2 nose job but an unwanted orphan non the less. The owner always said he did it wrong and should have contested the Porsche club series in a 944S2 race car season one move to 944T race car season 2 and then 964/993RS spec season 3 before going into Cup. Would have been cheaper he reckoned too...

 

Depending on the group organising the track day, we get 20-30 min sessions and once enough people have called it quits, it's open slather... I've done one tank sessions without it skipping a beat... They are that robust and that's what I'll be hoping future purchases can bring to the party

 

Chris. We are similar. We have our own group known as RSG (Rennsport Gruppe). Porsche's only. There are 35 paid members and typically 12-14 of us turn up to the track which is booked once a month through an organizer. We all start with full 70L tanks and leave with empty ones. Guys with road 997s setting times off a 997.2 GT3 of only 2-3 seconds a lap well driven on R compound rubber and race pads. Remarkably everyone seems ti finish a day. The products very durable and you dont need a GT3 either - majority of our group 964 and my 993 and all are at least as gurable as GT3 product. Caymans/Boxster/996 can suffer engine issues if so inclined but actually seems very rare...

 

I'm in the US mid-atlantic and have done almost 50 days a year for the past couple years. Not that hard to get to that many days because I can drive out and back the same day for 5 of the tracks, there are events both weekdays and weekends, and there are one-day events I can squeeze in here and there. I'm busy with work, but have some flexibility and can respond to emails at the track between sessions. Minimum seat time per day I get is 80 mins, sometimes as much as 200+ minutes, so that's 200 to 400+ km a day. The cost of doing this is high in terms of consumables, etc., but the cars can generally take it, and that's what I expect from Porsches.

Admittedly, at this density of driving, it's not as exciting as it was in the beginning, and I'll likely drive less next year, but still fun chasing the remaining ~2 secs a lap, instructing, hanging out with friends, etc. All of this driving has mainly been done in a 997S and Cayman R, and I'm hoping a GT3, cup car, etc. will elevate the fun. Will likely race at some point, but there's no hurry, the comparative simplicity of DE has its appeal.

 

I wish I could only stop at a tank, haha... Wet track, more conservative driving= 2 tanks, dry track minimum of 3, lol... Obviously being environmentally friendly ain't a forte of mine...

And I hope you now understand my frustration with Porsche and not the new GT3... My car will see plenty of use as was intended for it and one day will need to be updated. I want to have the same confidence in my next GT purchase that I had in this car before the whole CL debacle tainted the whole ownership experience. I purchased what was the perfect track weapon and arguable the only track worthy offering in the market except for the fact that so called 'professional' engineers couldn't get their **** together and complicated a straight forward wheel attachment system, the company washes its hands of the burden once it gets a bit much and we're stuck with hefty hub replacement bills every two years in the name of maintenance... When I pay $300k+, it's only fair to expect that they've done all the r&d testing so the product is up to the purpose they market as opposed to it being left up to us customers to do their testing at our cost... It angers me to think how casually they must test cars when fundamental flaws (coolant fittings, centrelocks etc) aren't identified until vehicles make it to market.

I don't want the new GT3 to fail and be rubbish contrary to the belief of some here, I want Porsche to start delivering what they market and to stop making the same mistakes over and over again and ruining our ownership experience...