GT3 production delays.... again!
10-13-2013, 08:55 PM
#256
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I have absolutely no problem with the delay nor am I concerned with the reliability of the car. I am buying a Porsche and I have nothing but the fullest confidence that the car when delivered will be up to Porsche standards and quality.
10-14-2013, 03:50 AM
#258
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I have a Toyota Tundra. Never once did I think that it was a suitable vehicle for towing the space shuttle. Nor did I think that a green lizard was the best place to buy car insurance.
Advertising is. . . . advertising.
Then don't.
Not sure how you think Porsche is any more or less special than any other manufacturer when it comes to warranty claims stemming from track use.
Advertising is. . . . advertising.
Then don't.
Not sure how you think Porsche is any more or less special than any other manufacturer when it comes to warranty claims stemming from track use.
..however, you should also advise them to change the name of the GT3 to GT(?)...like this customers wont associate it with GT3 CUPs that are being used on the track - by the way, 80% of GT3 customers do track...so Porsche has to decide.. GT3 = track use; GT(?) = no track use..then the world would be fine...Time will tell how this story evolves..but changing in the last minute such critical parts in an engine..we are not talking about the finishing touch of plastic button here whether it should be in satin black or matt black..
10-14-2013, 03:51 AM
#259
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10-14-2013, 05:16 AM
#260
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you would be a good lawyer.....however, you should also advise them to change the name of the GT3 to GT(?)...like this customers wont associate it with GT3 CUPs that are being used on the track - by the way, 80% of GT3 customers do track...so Porsche has to decide.. GT3 = track use; GT(?) = no track use..then the world would be fine...
Time will tell how this story evolves..but changing in the last minute such critical parts in an engine..we are not talking about the finishing touch of plastic button here whether it should be in satin black or matt black..
..however, you should also advise them to change the name of the GT3 to GT(?)...like this customers wont associate it with GT3 CUPs that are being used on the track - by the way, 80% of GT3 customers do track...so Porsche has to decide.. GT3 = track use; GT(?) = no track use..then the world would be fine...Time will tell how this story evolves..but changing in the last minute such critical parts in an engine..we are not talking about the finishing touch of plastic button here whether it should be in satin black or matt black..
10-14-2013, 07:14 AM
#261
Guys, I already said it on a different forum and I will repeat it here again:
There seem to be two issues, PDK and engine. I won't go into details because I simply can't and it wouldn't do any good but Porsche is aware of the issues, they caught them in time, the production has been delayed indeed but fixes are already in the works and the car will be even "better" than before, believe it or not.
It is very unfortunate that this happened but sh.t happens.
Just relax, as soon as first cars arrive at customers, the issues will be forgotten.
According to rumors, production may not start again until mid/end November but it really depends on how fast the fixes will be applied. I expect first customer cars for december delivery in Germany but don't nail me on this one, I do not work for Porsche.
There seem to be two issues, PDK and engine. I won't go into details because I simply can't and it wouldn't do any good but Porsche is aware of the issues, they caught them in time, the production has been delayed indeed but fixes are already in the works and the car will be even "better" than before, believe it or not.
It is very unfortunate that this happened but sh.t happens.
Just relax, as soon as first cars arrive at customers, the issues will be forgotten.
According to rumors, production may not start again until mid/end November but it really depends on how fast the fixes will be applied. I expect first customer cars for december delivery in Germany but don't nail me on this one, I do not work for Porsche.
10-14-2013, 08:03 AM
#262
Guys, I already said it on a different forum and I will repeat it here again:
There seem to be two issues, PDK and engine. I won't go into details because I simply can't and it wouldn't do any good but Porsche is aware of the issues, they caught them in time, the production has been delayed indeed but fixes are already in the works and the car will be even "better" than before, believe it or not.
It is very unfortunate that this happened but sh.t happens.
Just relax, as soon as first cars arrive at customers, the issues will be forgotten.
According to rumors, production may not start again until mid/end November but it really depends on how fast the fixes will be applied. I expect first customer cars for december delivery in Germany but don't nail me on this one, I do not work for Porsche.
There seem to be two issues, PDK and engine. I won't go into details because I simply can't and it wouldn't do any good but Porsche is aware of the issues, they caught them in time, the production has been delayed indeed but fixes are already in the works and the car will be even "better" than before, believe it or not.
It is very unfortunate that this happened but sh.t happens.
Just relax, as soon as first cars arrive at customers, the issues will be forgotten.
According to rumors, production may not start again until mid/end November but it really depends on how fast the fixes will be applied. I expect first customer cars for december delivery in Germany but don't nail me on this one, I do not work for Porsche.
10-14-2013, 08:26 AM
#263
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I'm fairly confident that the car will be fine if only driven on the street, and then covered by warranty anyway. But I think those who intend to heavily track the car have plenty to be concerned about, and as many have said, the GT3 is supposed to be a fully trackworthy 911.
10-14-2013, 08:49 AM
#264
... or the guys who're most determined to be hopeful are those who've already ordered (btw, I do have a refundable deposit on the car).
I'm fairly confident that the car will be fine if only driven on the street, and then covered by warranty anyway. But I think those who intend to heavily track the car have plenty to be concerned about, and as many have said, the GT3 is supposed to be a fully trackworthy 911.
I'm fairly confident that the car will be fine if only driven on the street, and then covered by warranty anyway. But I think those who intend to heavily track the car have plenty to be concerned about, and as many have said, the GT3 is supposed to be a fully trackworthy 911.
Concerning track use, I run my PDK 991S without any issues at all. I will expect no less from the GT3. Of course, any car, from any manufacturer, can have issues. If so, I will deal with it. At least I won't be waiting forever for the perfect car.
10-14-2013, 08:55 AM
#265
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The reality is that the skeptics amongst us have long had concerns about an all new engine/trans combo for a track focused car, especially one that hasn't spent time in a race car where real testing takes place... Traditionally, technology developed in motorsport, eventually filters to the street. Nope, not now with Porsche, they put a 'race' engine in a street car then into race cars...
And all this optimistic talk about how it's been caught and shall be fixed... Lets get our heads out of the sand for a minute and smell the coffee... Cars are due for delivery and apparently two key issues have been identified. This engine/trans has probably been in existence for 3 years undergoing secret testing and the problem was detected weeks out from delivery. How can the fixes be realistically tested to be 100% right without keeping customers waiting a further 12 months and damaging the company's reputation forever??? They can't and they won't. This is just going to pan out like the CL saga where 6 months after release a flaw was identified and torque was increased on bolts as part of recall one, then 3 years later when wheels had flown left right and centre and the structural weakness of the system was identified, recall two came along and the burden of a maintenance schedule was off-loaded upon us owners to shoulder.
Likewise, because they can't exhaustively test their fixes now (which would realistically delay deliveries many months), they are forced to take a stab in the dark, cross their fingers and deal with what may come...I sincerely hope they don't do another CL shaft on the new owners through warranty denial or worse like owner funded bottom end rebuilds with every 7000 track kms in 2-3 years time...
Whilst many of us aren't happy with new PDK only direction of these cars, the prospect of major issues with the new car doesn't please us because we too would ultimately like Porsche to continue to build the kind of cars we would again buy... Race proven, reliable and involving... here's to hoping!
And all this optimistic talk about how it's been caught and shall be fixed... Lets get our heads out of the sand for a minute and smell the coffee... Cars are due for delivery and apparently two key issues have been identified. This engine/trans has probably been in existence for 3 years undergoing secret testing and the problem was detected weeks out from delivery. How can the fixes be realistically tested to be 100% right without keeping customers waiting a further 12 months and damaging the company's reputation forever??? They can't and they won't. This is just going to pan out like the CL saga where 6 months after release a flaw was identified and torque was increased on bolts as part of recall one, then 3 years later when wheels had flown left right and centre and the structural weakness of the system was identified, recall two came along and the burden of a maintenance schedule was off-loaded upon us owners to shoulder.
Likewise, because they can't exhaustively test their fixes now (which would realistically delay deliveries many months), they are forced to take a stab in the dark, cross their fingers and deal with what may come...I sincerely hope they don't do another CL shaft on the new owners through warranty denial or worse like owner funded bottom end rebuilds with every 7000 track kms in 2-3 years time...
Whilst many of us aren't happy with new PDK only direction of these cars, the prospect of major issues with the new car doesn't please us because we too would ultimately like Porsche to continue to build the kind of cars we would again buy... Race proven, reliable and involving... here's to hoping!
Last edited by 911rox; 10-14-2013 at 09:12 AM.
10-14-2013, 09:14 AM
#266
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I agree. Manifold either sh*t or get off the pot....
911rox. Unfortunately there have been no facts released to this board or anywhere globally so again speculation is rife. Some have sources closer to Porsche than others but end of day this is all speculation until Porsche make an announcement.
I think there is some confusion here.
PDK-S additional cooling was identified as a beneficial precaution not a fix for a design flaw. It was to be sure of durability above and beyond design envelope. Many 100's of laps of Nurburgring and many 10,000 road Km covered on original design.
With regards the engine, the way I was led to understand the issue was that a suppliers component was substandard in metallurgy and all of those components supplied were now determined unfit for use. This was not a design parameter issue, car companies runs some of the most powerful superb computers on earth, they know the tolerances the component must be made to to endure the relative stress it will face. When a supplier is struggling to meet the parameters of design with 100% guarantee you generally have two options. Redesign the component in such a fashion the supplier can guarantee 100% compliance or find another supplier who can do the job. there is a third option - pay a fortune for some exotic alloy matrix solution and wear the cost....
I think its all got way to carried away on here. Porsche have not announced a single fact or any details of weather delays will be 2 weeks or 2 months and here we are giving this new GT3 a baptism of fire.
I for one feel even more excited by this car than I did before. Its starting to take on a mythical quality and still those who I know and trust who first hand experience of the car tell me its the bets car Porsche has produced since the 993 was discontinued. Its great that a whole segment of "hardcore" folk out there have been dismissive of the product as the new GT3 starts to really polarize people and that I believe is a very good thing for those of us who choose to buy this car. It is after-all a choice, nothing less nothing more and the best dam first world problem to have is deciding on what colour to order it LOL!
911rox. Unfortunately there have been no facts released to this board or anywhere globally so again speculation is rife. Some have sources closer to Porsche than others but end of day this is all speculation until Porsche make an announcement.
I think there is some confusion here.
PDK-S additional cooling was identified as a beneficial precaution not a fix for a design flaw. It was to be sure of durability above and beyond design envelope. Many 100's of laps of Nurburgring and many 10,000 road Km covered on original design.
With regards the engine, the way I was led to understand the issue was that a suppliers component was substandard in metallurgy and all of those components supplied were now determined unfit for use. This was not a design parameter issue, car companies runs some of the most powerful superb computers on earth, they know the tolerances the component must be made to to endure the relative stress it will face. When a supplier is struggling to meet the parameters of design with 100% guarantee you generally have two options. Redesign the component in such a fashion the supplier can guarantee 100% compliance or find another supplier who can do the job. there is a third option - pay a fortune for some exotic alloy matrix solution and wear the cost....
I think its all got way to carried away on here. Porsche have not announced a single fact or any details of weather delays will be 2 weeks or 2 months and here we are giving this new GT3 a baptism of fire.
I for one feel even more excited by this car than I did before. Its starting to take on a mythical quality and still those who I know and trust who first hand experience of the car tell me its the bets car Porsche has produced since the 993 was discontinued. Its great that a whole segment of "hardcore" folk out there have been dismissive of the product as the new GT3 starts to really polarize people and that I believe is a very good thing for those of us who choose to buy this car. It is after-all a choice, nothing less nothing more and the best dam first world problem to have is deciding on what colour to order it LOL!
10-14-2013, 09:16 AM
#267
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A refundable deposit doesn't mean anything. It just allows a prolonged "tire kicking" session. You've posted enough "questions", "concerns", and "troubles" about the new car to make it appear that you really aren't going to buy one.
Concerning track use, I run my PDK 991S without any issues at all. I will expect no less from the GT3. Of course, any car, from any manufacturer, can have issues. If so, I will deal with it. At least I won't be waiting forever for the perfect car.
Concerning track use, I run my PDK 991S without any issues at all. I will expect no less from the GT3. Of course, any car, from any manufacturer, can have issues. If so, I will deal with it. At least I won't be waiting forever for the perfect car.
How many track days have you done with your 991S and how hard have to driven it on track? Push a car close to its limits on the track, day after day, and it's a whole different ball game ...
10-14-2013, 09:27 AM
#268
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911rox. Unfortunately there have been no facts released to this board or anywhere globally so again speculation is rife. Some have sources closer to Porsche than others but end of day this is all speculation until Porsche make an announcement.
I think there is some confusion here.
PDK-S additional cooling was identified as a beneficial precaution not a fix for a design flaw. It was to be sure of durability above and beyond design envelope. Many 100's of laps of Nurburgring and many 10,000 road Km covered on original design.
With regards the engine, the way I was led to understand the issue was that a suppliers component was substandard in metallurgy and all of those components supplied were now determined unfit for use. This was not a design parameter issue, car companies runs some of the most powerful superb computers on earth, they know the tolerances the component must be made to to endure the relative stress it will face. When a supplier is struggling to meet the parameters of design with 100% guarantee you generally have two options. Redesign the component in such a fashion the supplier can guarantee 100% compliance or find another supplier who can do the job. there is a third option - pay a fortune for some exotic alloy matrix solution and wear the cost....
I think its all got way to carried away on here. Porsche have not announced a single fact or any details of weather delays will be 2 weeks or 2 months and here we are giving this new GT3 a baptism of fire.
I think there is some confusion here.
PDK-S additional cooling was identified as a beneficial precaution not a fix for a design flaw. It was to be sure of durability above and beyond design envelope. Many 100's of laps of Nurburgring and many 10,000 road Km covered on original design.
With regards the engine, the way I was led to understand the issue was that a suppliers component was substandard in metallurgy and all of those components supplied were now determined unfit for use. This was not a design parameter issue, car companies runs some of the most powerful superb computers on earth, they know the tolerances the component must be made to to endure the relative stress it will face. When a supplier is struggling to meet the parameters of design with 100% guarantee you generally have two options. Redesign the component in such a fashion the supplier can guarantee 100% compliance or find another supplier who can do the job. there is a third option - pay a fortune for some exotic alloy matrix solution and wear the cost....
I think its all got way to carried away on here. Porsche have not announced a single fact or any details of weather delays will be 2 weeks or 2 months and here we are giving this new GT3 a baptism of fire.
Hundreds of laps on the 'ring isn't enough. The car needs to be good enough for thousands of laps on the ring.
Speaking as a structural engineer, regarding the cracking issue, no amount of simulation modeling can replace empirical testing to determine what the true fatigue life of these components is, and the fix isn't typically as simple as changing 'tolerances' on material composition.
10-14-2013, 09:33 AM
#269
Exactly, I can still can cancel my deposit with no penalty, or if I decide to get it I'm #3 on the list. At this point, I have no idea whether I'll get one, but am glad that I won't one of the first to get one.
How many track days have you done with your 991S and how hard have to driven it on track? Push a car close to its limits on the track, day after day, and it's a whole different ball game ...
How many track days have you done with your 991S and how hard have to driven it on track? Push a car close to its limits on the track, day after day, and it's a whole different ball game ...
10-14-2013, 09:54 AM
#270
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Fair enough, I only get to the track every couple of months and I push it as hard as "I" can, YMMV. I think, however, that is probably typical of the majority of Porsche owners, GT3 or otherwise. High mileage hammering at the track opens up lots of issues. I still look at the GT3 as a street car that can be enjoyed at the track.