cobalt

Talk about apples and oranges. IMO the gray car sold for too much the green for too little. The cost and time needed to bring the gray car into the same condition as the Green car is monumental. Not that the gray car is a bad car it just isn't in the same league as the green car. Unless condition doesn't matter to the buyer for its intended use the $40k delta in price IMO made the green car a screaming deal in comparison. Although I love my Amazon I am not a fan of the cashmere interior. That is why I swapped mine out for black.

We have seen lesser cars by far sell for more on BaT. Whoever figures out this market please let me know. I am also assuming you have unraveled the mystery of what a woman wants and the winning lottery numbers. I am actually shocked Jeremy let the car go so cheap.

cobalt

I can't seem to stop sticking my neck out and getting in trouble asking the questions no seller wants asked. I hope the seller isn't someone here and if it is I don't know what to say. I do agree with FantasyJunction on BaT Anyone interested in this RSA needs to have a through PPI done. Clearly a tracked car with multiple tech inspections for track duty but he is claiming the only accident is associated with the rear end. Am I missing something here??? I suspect there is more going on here than Mr. FantasyJunction cares to admit. I would take his advice and have a PPI done before looking twice. 🤮

dmaddox

I'd post on BaT, but I will get flamed by all the fan boys - so I'll say it here. That car had a front right impact. I'm not going to spray my resume here on working on bodies, but I am 99% certain on this.

Photo #121, you can see the concave area of the right side (left in the photo) "bow" of having been hit in the front right, there is a small fracture in the brace as well.
Photo #123, you can see on the left side of the car, it is flat.
Photo #128, lower panel shows an attempt to make that support brace flat, but it is nearly impossible to do so, clear impact damage.
There are several other photos that show the damage.

Finally, why over spray in the "frunk" area (Photo #127) if there was no impact/repair needed?

Hit in the rear, likely pushing the vehicle into another car or loosing control and into a barrier. I'll say also - I have a 1993 C2, and it is flat on both sides and does not have the shoddy welding/hammer and dolly work.

I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus, or call anyone a liar. But I'd even say these things to a good friend.

cobalt

LOL
Some say I have some bodywork experience and have had my fingers in many 964's. It doesn't take an experienced buyer to see that something so obviously damaged would leave the factory that way. I hope whoever bids on this knows what they are getting into. I suspect if you lift the carpet you can see were the roll cage was bolted/welded and covered up.

964TURBOCHAS

I can assure you that my RS America doesn't resemble those pics at all lol.

sooner964

If the car being auctioned were a 3.8 RS, I imagine the same folks commenting about how hideous the spoiler is would instead be saying how awesome it is.

dmaddox

This is us right now, ehe he he:

Ecosse911

@cobalt @dmaddox

I was already watching this RSA, it is in my neighborhood and the prior usage is similar to my own RSA that I bought early last year.

I also spotted the poor repair on the front right. I am sure the seller has the same thoughts and they included the pictures. Do they have more details on the front right repair? Maybe but they are basically saying it’s the buyers responsibility

In the time I have owned my car I have accepted the fact that it is was a driver level car with track usage. It seems that the low value of these cars resulted in a number of cars being used as intended, on track or driven without a concern for value. That is something I have heard echo’d from those with more knowledge than myself. Therefore these tracked RSA often have lesser focus on the aesthetics and more on the functionality. An example a PO of my car spent around $20K on full motor rebuild but I have two RHS fog lights, one mounted upside down! There a bunch of these little things that I will switch out along the way.

The value of my car appears to have went up considerably in the first year of ownership. I did not buy it as an investment and plan to modify. However I do find myself questioning how far I should go with the modifications when it is quite a rare car. I already decided to keep NB even though I drool over the hips on WB. I think the RSA spoiler is better suited to a WB, but I don’t plan to remove as it’s a signature of the RSA. It is a shame that it is missing from that car. Although it does still have the seats which are unique to the RSA and are rather pricey and hard to find.

So hypothetically if you purchased this car what would you plan? Is it worth to properly repair the bodywork and return to original or drive as is? Use as mixed use track car?

dmaddox

@Ecosse911 Thanks for the message - I am in line with you on the "Purpose" driven car and where the money is spent vs. what gets a quick bandaid.

Since you asked - I wouldn't buy this car. I am getting to a point in my life where I find myself working WAY too hard to get something to my standard. I then invest more than the car is worth - and more importantly, the time....valuable time that I can spend doing things with my family, my friends and driving these cars. The time sink required to yank this car apart and make it right...let alone the cash investment? I'd rather just pay 50k more for one that hasn't been hung up wet.

Someone may get a deal on this car, but it won't be me! Also Famous Daves Killer bread is delicious right now with cajun chicken boar's head.

cobalt

[QUOTE] I also spotted the poor repair on the front right. I am sure the seller has the same thoughts and they included the pictures. Do they have more details on the front right repair? Maybe but they are basically saying it’s the buyers responsibility [/QUOTE]

@Ecosse911 Sorry but this is where I have an issue. Same BS I saw unravel during the 80's grey market. Once we saw more of this is when things started to downturn. IMO Typical dishonest used car seller tactics. He would be far better off being transparent and taking what he can instead of the approach he is taking. I am sure someone will overspend for it as so many I have seen before buy under the same conditions on BaT. Their lawyer will tell them they are SOL and many tens of thousands $$ later they will have a half decent driver.

I spent over a decade on track with my 964 and countless others. We also had numerous 964 cup cars and others and then came the GT3's. The RSA especially was the track weapon of choice in the US and I can't tell you how many were crashed and repaired like this with no working speedo so TMU and the car was hacked to death again and again. Seats and other bits always look better since they were never in the car for most of its life and there is no carfax info since track related incidents usually weren't covered or documented. BTW RSA seats are no different than the later 3.2 carrera cloth seats or something you can make out of a regular pair if you have a good upholsterer.

IMO this is a good project car or parts car and that is it. Poorly repaired accident damaged 964's aren't worth much. This car is probably worth more parted out To fix the front end as I see it is a full removal of the amateurish repair job and replacement of the front clip. To do properly is not cheap by any means. Why not spend the money up front and buy a car without so many issues. I have seen parts cars and Singer donors that were in far nicer condition get chopped up. Sadly this wouldn't even qualify for a Singer build.

georgej

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1992-porsche-911-carrera-2-1/?utm_source=Morning%20email%20blast#

I saw this on Pcar Market the other day. Looks to be a nice and tastefully modified "92 C2 in a nice red and a bit tired upholstery.


2/11/22 It SOLD for $82,750 which seems like a great deal to me. It had 76k miles on it according to the listing.

Ecosse911

How long can this stream of 964’s continue? When I bought my first 964 last May they were pretty scarce to find. Since then prices have climbed even more and the flood gates appeared to open at the end of last year. I am an avid BaT watcher and there is a non stop stream of 964’s for sale.

I like this car and would have been a buyer if I hadn’t already picked up mine last year. Agree @georgej a better buy than some cars passing through BaT


@dmaddox Unfortunately I can’t resist a project. For me half the fun of restoring or modifying is learning a new platform and actually doing as much work as my experience permits. I do agree bought is a smarter approach if you find something that fits your taste. I am lean more towards modifying and buying a tired driver allows me to do this with a clear conscience that I am not messing up a good car.


@cobalt You are always spot on and I really appreciate the advice you gave me when I picked up my RSA. The history of mine was more transparent than the BaT car, mine was tracked and has a really nice set of RSA seats just as you mentioned. It was also bumped on the front left and while repaired better than the BaT car you can still tell it has been repaired when you see the finer detail of difference in under coating texture. I think a large amount of the newly appearing cars for sale need much closer inspection. I have gotten much better at noticing panel gaps which typically guides the eye to a potential issue. Then the handy paint meters which pretty much confirm why some panel gaps don’t look factory. I metered my car after the purchase (PPI, remote purchase) and it is around 6mil everywhere except the front left fender and hood which reads 10-12mil. There is a mountain of knowledge in this forum and while purchase price is a significant factor being able to judge the cars honest history from sometime subtle details is invaluable.

[QUOTE=cobalt;17961344][QUOTE]

Seats and other bits always look better since they were never in the car for most of its life and there is no carfax info since track related incidents usually weren't covered or documented.

IMO this is a good project car or parts car and that is it. Poorly repaired accident damaged 964's aren't worth much. This car is probably worth more parted out To fix the front end as I see it is a full removal of the amateurish repair job and replacement of the front clip/QUOTE]

spooky69

With 70 orders apparently already placed for the new Singer I guess 964s are going to become even rarer.

dmaddox

Unless they move to 930 donor cars (since it is a 930 tribute)? It isn't a sustainable business model to focus on a terminal product.

spooky69

It's still based on the 964 apparently.