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No Doubt, since I can't tell whether your post is serious or in jest, let's do an experiment. Get your 928 in the queue at BAT, and as soon as the auction goes live, start posting incessantly about how your 928 has 4 wheel steering. See how that goes over with the peanut gallery.
We all know the unique (or at least ahead-of-their-time) features of the 928. Buyers aren't bidding up a car because of the the arcane features, they're bidding based on miles, relative rarity, cosmetics, mechanical condition, and the responsiveness of the seller to questions about the car.
That's a strange post, and it's unlikely that you actually mean any of it.
Why defend Keith's lack of knowledge about his 928? Seriously.
He's a serious car guy who buys some great examples of top-tier cars. His writing and reviews are legendary. And look at those pictures! Impressive.
...none of that makes him unquestionable or flawless, however.
His ad for that 928 bragged about the 180 mph speedometer, hardly a feature unique to his 928 or indicative of its mechanical condition. You know this. You read his ad. How could you post the above in any seriousness?
He bragged about painted mirror caps.
Am I making unreasonable criticisms here?
Maybe we just don't care about For Sale ads in a For Sale thread. Is that it, or is this just a "Keith is my idol" thread where we shouldn't comment when he drops the ball?
You seem to be focused on me personally, as if my criticisms aren't valid. Yeah, if I'm selling an Automatic 928 that has the stronger torque converter, I'd list *that* feature over painted mirror caps.
And with an entire clique of 911 drivers in love with their Weissach rear axles that began on the 928, sure, I'd list 4-wheel-steering in that same ad because 911 drivers pay Top Dollar. You want cross-over buyers of the same Brand bidding up other Models.
So I'm not just generically ******* Keith. Obviously he does a lot of things well, but I can itemize a series of blunders and fumbles that he made on selling that particular 928 such as not pointing out that it has front and rear stabilizer bars.
Really, you want to pretend that none of the above matters?! That's what you want people to believe that you think?
Fair enough, I'm probably guilty of some reading comprehension fail here, and also of some Keith Martin fan-boi-ing- it's always a plus for the 928 community when someone with influence in the collector car sphere buys and writes about 928s. Certainly there are parts of that auction that I would have handled differently. With regard to the auction description, having completed four 928 auctions on BAT, there's a stock template of text they use for a 928 auction. You can go back and forth with your 'Auction Specialist' on the descriptors but a lot of the language in each auction is not your choice - BAT's house counsel controls the verbiage, not the seller. I hate all the weasel words - 'the car is said to have had ___________', etc. The 180 mph speedometer thing is part of their boilerplate language- I never tried to get it removed but I agree that it's kind of silly to mention, it's right there in the picture of the gauge cluster. And of course it's fine to point out particular features of 928s that make them interesting and unique, I'm just not sure that anyone really cares about the size of the swaybars (unless the seller has made them bigger, which demonstrates that they don't understand 928 handling) or that the strength of the torque converter (there was only one torque converter used from '87 to '95, with one succession during the GTS series that didn't change the torque rating or stall speed) moves the needle that much on the final sale price.
All of which is to say, if the goal of listing a car on BAT is to sell it for the highest price, you have the best chance of doing that if you camp out on the comments page during the auction, be responsive to questions that arise, and have additional content (more pics, driving videos, etc) ready to post late in the auction so that anyone 'following' the auction gets an email notice of new content. I agree with you that Keith's auction could have been handled better, and I didn't mean to sound like I was personally attacking you (I'm really sorry if it did) but I don't agree with your contention that it was because he didn't point out features that are present on all 87-95 928s.
Fair enough, I'm probably guilty of some reading comprehension fail here, and also of some Keith Martin fan-boi-ing- it's always a plus for the 928 community when someone with influence in the collector car sphere buys and writes about 928s. Certainly there are parts of that auction that I would have handled differently. With regard to the auction description, having completed four 928 auctions on BAT, there's a stock template of text they use for a 928 auction. You can go back and forth with your 'Auction Specialist' on the descriptors but a lot of the language in each auction is not your choice - BAT's house counsel controls the verbiage, not the seller. I hate all the weasel words - 'the car is said to have had ___________', etc. The 180 mph speedometer thing is part of their boilerplate language- I never tried to get it removed but I agree that it's kind of silly to mention, it's right there in the picture of the gauge cluster. And of course it's fine to point out particular features of 928s that make them interesting and unique, I'm just not sure that anyone really cares about the size of the swaybars (unless the seller has made them bigger, which demonstrates that they don't understand 928 handling) or that the strength of the torque converter (there was only one torque converter used from '87 to '95, with one succession during the GTS series that didn't change the torque rating or stall speed) moves the needle that much on the final sale price.
All of which is to say, if the goal of listing a car on BAT is to sell it for the highest price, you have the best chance of doing that if you camp out on the comments page during the auction, be responsive to questions that arise, and have additional content (more pics, driving videos, etc) ready to post late in the auction so that anyone 'following' the auction gets an email notice of new content. I agree with you that Keith's auction could have been handled better, and I didn't mean to sound like I was personally attacking you (I'm really sorry if it did) but I don't agree with your contention that it was because he didn't point out features that are present on all 87-95 928s.
I agree 100%. Plus as far as BaT ads go, no one, and I mean no one, garners more traction and bids than Avante Garde motors (911r) over there. Their presentations photographically are second to none. I have no doubt, that no matter what the description in the ad said or didn't say that the this car brought all the money it could. Why? Because it was the 3rd highest sale of an S4 all-time on BaT. Keith's car had 63K miles on it. The other two S4's only had 30K and 40K miles and went just for a few grand more.
Fair enough, I'm probably guilty of some reading comprehension fail here, and also of some Keith Martin fan-boi-ing- it's always a plus for the 928 community when someone with influence in the collector car sphere buys and writes about 928s. Certainly there are parts of that auction that I would have handled differently. With regard to the auction description, having completed four 928 auctions on BAT, there's a stock template of text they use for a 928 auction. You can go back and forth with your 'Auction Specialist' on the descriptors but a lot of the language in each auction is not your choice - BAT's house counsel controls the verbiage, not the seller. I hate all the weasel words - 'the car is said to have had ___________', etc. The 180 mph speedometer thing is part of their boilerplate language- I never tried to get it removed but I agree that it's kind of silly to mention, it's right there in the picture of the gauge cluster. And of course it's fine to point out particular features of 928s that make them interesting and unique, I'm just not sure that anyone really cares about the size of the swaybars (unless the seller has made them bigger, which demonstrates that they don't understand 928 handling) or that the strength of the torque converter (there was only one torque converter used from '87 to '95, with one succession during the GTS series that didn't change the torque rating or stall speed) moves the needle that much on the final sale price.
All of which is to say, if the goal of listing a car on BAT is to sell it for the highest price, you have the best chance of doing that if you camp out on the comments page during the auction, be responsive to questions that arise, and have additional content (more pics, driving videos, etc) ready to post late in the auction so that anyone 'following' the auction gets an email notice of new content. I agree with you that Keith's auction could have been handled better, and I didn't mean to sound like I was personally attacking you (I'm really sorry if it did) but I don't agree with your contention that it was because he didn't point out features that are present on all 87-95 928s.
Rob, nice post, thanks.
Obviously we differ on our opinion of listing features vs final sales price, but that's a reasonable disagreement and for all that I know you are correct and I'm wrong about listing such.
On facts, however, I was under the impression that the stronger (larger center shaft by 3mm that forced a larger center tunnel and change in the rear seats) torque converter only began on the 1988+ automatic S4s... not available in 1987. If I'm wrong on that fact, then I apologize.
Keith's 1991 S4 also had increased soundproofing from the factory.
Some thoughts on the Keith Martin S4... I think well cared for Auto prices will eclipse similar well cared for 5 speeds in 2 years. Why? Age, disabilities and performance delta against newer cars is diminishing fast It's just more practical for someone who's had a hip or knee replacement etc and then wants to drive a "super car" to choose an automatic. Seems to be lots of recent interest in Automatic Ferrari's, Jaguar XJS' and Auto E-types. I'm gonna call these cars... 'Super Cruisers' The performance gap between an Auto and Manual is unimportant when newer cars are so much quicker so that the slight difference in older models (auto to manual) doesn't matter any longer. That only leaves the pure driving enthusiast who wants a manual and 928s have never been strong with that crowd.
This why in find the new Nissan 400Z so interesting, It has a manual option, and it will be interesting to see who and how many people choose that option. I think few will and manual sales will be dead by year 2 or 3. The demographic trends are merciless and non negotiable.
Many of the details Keith posted post about the car were a bit off... something unexpected becasue he's seemed so spot on about cars in the past. Also he seemed to be talking is own book in the comments with out making it clear he was the actual seller. Some of the comments also seemed incoherent and inconsistent. Like the issues with the paint and seats. Then I learned KM is still recovering from a stroke.
Last edited by icsamerica; 08-27-2021 at 03:23 PM.
I can't find a plane ticket to Wichita for this kinda sketchy looking auction, so I'm passing it onto everyone here if someone is in the area. 1978 Euro 5 speed slicktop car, with a 350 in it. It's tomorrow (Saturday) at 10 AM. Depending on what it goes for might be a good deal on a driver's car.
I'd bid on it if I could get out there in time and if I had any idea what it'd go for. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...8599662067783/
Not sure if the FB marketplace link will work- Hopefully it does.
So have we ever seen this many 928's on BAT at once before? It seems like another one pops up every day, and for a while they were all red. I know of a nice black '89 in Houston that is waiting to be listed, but it's a crowded field right now. If I were a seller, I wouldn't want this much competition.
I can't find a plane ticket to Wichita for this kinda sketchy looking auction, so I'm passing it onto everyone here if someone is in the area. 1978 Euro 5 speed slicktop car, with a 350 in it. It's tomorrow (Saturday) at 10 AM. Depending on what it goes for might be a good deal on a driver's car.
I'd bid on it if I could get out there in time and if I had any idea what it'd go for. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...8599662067783/
Not sure if the FB marketplace link will work- Hopefully it does.
Here’s what it looks like as of today. A tree got ahold of it.
Beautiful car with a special color combo of (palladium?) with cork.
However, wish it would be in BaT instead of Barrett-Jackson, since our beloved 928 don't usually fare as well on Barrett as on BaT.
Maybe the provence of being a Risky Business car will elevate it to a better auction standard.
Y'all have seen that a few posters seriously disagree with me, but here's my opinion on 928 sales anyway: Wait.
The Risky Business 928 that is up for sale at the Barrett-Jackson auction in Houston Sept 16-18 will redefine a new leg up in the rise of 928 values and demand.
After that auction... absolutely, list your 928 for sale. Wannabe restorers and starry-eyed car-flippers are going to be snapping up every 928 that has as little as a clear title and frame remaining.
08-26-2021, 02:12 AM
