porscheflat6

This is awesome comparison!

porscheflat6

I unfortunately can't see that being the case. I just moved from .2 3RS to GT4 and the 4RS looks amazing but I have been a GT owner for 8 years and 60% of my mileage is track time on every car. There is no way the GT4RS will approach the new GT3. It is significantly improved on suspension over the .2 3RS and I could immediately notice it driving one a few weeks ago on track. My GT4 is extensively modified so I can run similar times at local track as my .2 GT3 but it is still considerably behind the .2 3RS. The 911 keep getting so much better and safer at speed but 80% of the owners can only drive the car at 70% of it potential. The GT4 ownership group is even less efficient at extracting the potential of the car as an overall group when going to tracks from my observations. I have been in racing in some form since I was 6 years and been doing automotive tracking for 10 years. I have learned time and time again that only professionals can extract 85% or higher of cars true potential these days because they are so fast and take such quick responses to control them at high rates of speed.

FogCitySF

Think you just have to look at the experience of those driving the GT4 CS (vs the GT3 RS) the GT4 CS is easier to drive vs 3 RS and in the Misha's vid the GT4 MR vs the GT4 RS, the MR should NOT be cornering faster even with a better suspension on inferior tires (and notice how smooth the driving is due to the lack of balance/DF issues..all still on strut suspension but with better dampers). There is no way that the 7:04/7:09 time is best the 4 RS can produce.

Regular GT4s really suffer from insufficient power...once you stick a 4.5 engine producing close to 500 (as with some of the builds on various GT4 threads) you've got a GT3 RS peer even on purported "inferior suspension" (but better vehicle dynamics due to mid engine). Adjusted for tires and driver skill, the 992 GT3, 991.2GT3 RS and even the 991.2 GT3 are all really close on most US tracks. The double wishbone (as mentioned by race drivers experiencing GT3) while improves handling/confidence, really isn't responsible for a lot of time delta difference if both cars well driven. You can also see this the sport auto lap time comparison back to back same day/driver on the 992 GT3 touring vs 911R (with 911R being down on power, having narrower wheels, less DF, and not having the magical double wishbone..shocking how close the cars were in lap time.would have expected a greater delta). We'll see once the sport auto and US track experiences/times come out... I bet delta will be minimal.

porscheflat6

I have also had some seat time in the GT4CS because of a couple friends who own them and it is full blown race car with better dampers and spring rates and suspension than stock 3RS. They are not even close in comparison and it is clear immediately. There is significant difference in how the suspension is valved and set-up for street/track versus full blown competition track car. You missed the key point of my objection to the statement, only a professional driver (like FIA level A licensed or Formula licensed) can extra a cars true potential of 85% or more. And look at the field lap times between the top pros and bottom pros, the lap times in a race a significant different even at that level and that shows how much talent gap there is even at that level. Sport Auto is a bunch of journalists who don't race professionally and don't get paid or have coaches etc... to be the best. They can't achieve the cars potential and that is clear in there videos. They are good and great drivers, they are not top tier professionals.

I have literally had the opportunity to see a driver coach who is also an ex-formula driver hop in GT4CS and take a top level GT4 America driver and his car with his set-up and make him look like an ameture driver in lap time and speed, hence why he is his coach. If you spend a lot of time around race tracks, you sometimes get to see mind blowing things that change perspectives and really clear up what it means to drive at the top level drive like Kevin Estre. I have literally seen guys post hot laps at COTA in then a coach/formula driver roll-up, hop out of car, throw on his helmet and Hans and go out for session and just destroy people and run lap times like a 2:12 in 2RS or 2:16 in 3RS and then sit down in the paddock like it was a warm-up and bench mark for the person he is going to coach for the day. This has changed my perspective completely now on what really speed in a car means and how can really extract the car real potential.

halfmonkey

Looks like confirmed via Twitter, Porsche has confirmed that GT4 RS is launching in November. I'm guessing it will launch at the Los Angeles Auto Show since it was described as also showcasing a world premiere.

Whoever goes to the show, make sure you take tons of pictures.

FogCitySF

Yeah I wasn't really trying to trade personal anecdotes..being in NorCal with year-round race tracks, I track with amateur drivers that are extremely close and even match/exceed the times of pro drivers (lap records are regularly published), and the pro drivers (incl people like Randy Pobst) who regularly come to my home tracks to coach all the time, so I'm extremely well aware of the pro vs amateur differences as I'm on the tracks with them at the same time in the same sessions across so many platforms (including multi million $$ cars). I also instruct for one of the car clubs and assess my own skill level as being about 90% of my GT3RS's capability. Agree that Christian Gephardt isn't doing to do the best time like a pro driver but he will for sure be beyond 85% of the car (probably closer to 95% if you actually analyze his lap times). My understanding of speed/capablity of individuals as amateurs vs pros is besides the point of my argument... Also my point with the GT4CS is that is is a full blown race car but it is easier to drive than a GT3RS road car (I know many ppl amateurs and pros who I track with regularly that hold this opinion).

Point being/Bottom line: I really think when all is said and done the 992 GT3 and the GT4 RS won't be that far apart in times (much less than suggested by the n-ring time of porsche with all kinds of issues that all can readily accept/acknowledge) and think there is ample evidence to suggest so just from my observation of the footage (and before Misha's video...I totally thought the 4RS was a sandbagged time and looking at his analysis which was a lot more in-depth , totally confirmed what I initially thought). And I think for the average advanced track day amateur or even with the pros, the differences in both cars won't be a lot and won't be as much as the 10 seconds suggested by comparing the two cars on the n-ring...with the amateur track day driver times closer across both platforms due to ease of driving closer to the limit in the GT4/RS. Anyway, this is my opinion based on what I've seen and what I know and personally experienced across porsche platforms and whether I'm correct or incorrect will be empirically verifiable.

MsGT3

While I know no one really knows the answer to this, I figured I would like to hear some opinions since a many of you have a lot of knowledge on Porsche...

What are the chances of this car getting a ".2" version? Or will this most likely be like the GT2 RS where it's just that and done?

ExMB

About the same as you searching for the already posted answer on here.

Loess

Do we know what tire size they were running? 245/255 and 305? Not many CupR sizes.

nlpamg

No, we do indeed know the answer to this. It will NOT be getting a .2 version. This car is already the .2 version of the current generation Cayman. After this, you'll have to wait until the next generation Cayman is released and then for them to go through the iterations and lineup.

Avaley

Going to say it again, like I have many posts in this thread before, it'll 475-85hp and its 7 min car per Misha. Just a hair behind the GT3 in performance and price. GT3 RS should be epic.

ExMB

1/8 mile drag strip?

porscheflat6

Whoopsy

So nice to see the car I broke the new here 3 years ago is finally appearing.

This car will be the best driver's car. Swift reactions to driver input with the mid engine layout, it doesn't need to be manhandled around corners like 911s, it's all finesse, there is a reason why the top race cars are all mid engined.

I raced a Cup car, I tracked a GT4CS at my track, two completely different layout and driving style. Which one I prefers? It's satisfying to make a 911 do what you want it to do, but it is even more satisfying to control the less stable mid engine platform and make it dane.

Give me a choice between 992 GT3 and the GT4RS, I will take the GT4RS everyday. It may be the unloved cousin, the cheaper car, but doesn't mean it isn't really really good.

I was the first to suggest the GT4RS gets the GT3 engine way back then. But with Porsche developing a new 4L flat 6 for the 718 GT4, I am 99% sure the engine is a tuned up version of that. Pricing do make a difference in what engine Porsche uses.

The car will have an unbelievable intake roar. The rear quarter window panels are the engine intakes, so it's only 18 inches away from your ears. The only other Porsche to have something that close to the ears is the 918 with the exhaust stacks.

There won't be another version of the GT4RS, the 718 series will be replaced by EVs it would seems.

porscheflat6

It will get gobbled up and sit in garages to be queen and C&C one off special edition swan song for Cayman's. ADM's were $50K before the lap time was published, I plan to call next week to see what the new tax will be on the car and I bet it is something stupid.