The Giant EV General Discussion Thread
01-29-2024, 02:48 PM
#721
Burning Brakes
Most likely because of the starting price of a Macan EV, $80,400 vs the starting price of a base Macan $62,500. With an $18,000 difference between a base Macan ICE and a base Macan EV, I think I can see where he is coming from. Using the same $18,000 difference between a base Cayman $68,300 and base Cayman EV we get $86,300 as the POSSIBLE starting price point of a base Cayman EV. Right now we have no other information about pricing other than the just released pricing of the Macan EV. But since both the Macan EV and the Cayman EV will be using the same PPE platform, I would expect to see close to the same $18,000 starting point difference between ICE and EV.
01-29-2024, 03:10 PM
#722
Rennlist Member
Most likely because of the starting price of a Macan EV, $80,400 vs the starting price of a base Macan $62,500. With an $18,000 difference between a base Macan ICE and a base Macan EV, I think I can see where he is coming from. Using the same $18,000 difference between a base Cayman $68,300 and base Cayman EV we get $86,300 as the POSSIBLE starting price point of a base Cayman EV. Right now we have no other information about pricing other than the just released pricing of the Macan EV. But since both the Macan EV and the Cayman EV will be using the same PPE platform, I would expect to see close to the same $18,000 starting point difference between ICE and EV.
Porsche being a somewhat predictable company....it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually introduce a Macan S model between the current 4 and the turbo, and then introduce a true base (that might only be rwd) at a lower price point. If they wait 1-2 years, they can increment the MSRPs of the current models until the difference between those and the EVs isn't so disruptive.
Last edited by mrclam; 01-29-2024 at 03:12 PM.
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MXA121 (01-29-2024)
01-29-2024, 07:24 PM
#723
Most likely because of the starting price of a Macan EV, $80,400 vs the starting price of a base Macan $62,500. With an $18,000 difference between a base Macan ICE and a base Macan EV, I think I can see where he is coming from. Using the same $18,000 difference between a base Cayman $68,300 and base Cayman EV we get $86,300 as the POSSIBLE starting price point of a base Cayman EV. Right now we have no other information about pricing other than the just released pricing of the Macan EV. But since both the Macan EV and the Cayman EV will be using the same PPE platform, I would expect to see close to the same $18,000 starting point difference between ICE and EV.
01-29-2024, 10:28 PM
#724
Drifting
to ipsi. I'd definitely pay a lot more if Porsche can create a lighter EV.
to Zhao, this is a post I made elsewhere on RL about weight and range and someone was saying that an EV must be very heavy to have good range, and I disagreed.
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Its more complicated than that. In real world testing, the $43,000 Telsa Model 3 dual motor, equaled or beat the range of Taycans that cost triple the money and those same Taycan EVs weigh 1,100 pounds more than those same Tesla model 3 dual motor cars.
https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791...-test-results/
Porsche packs a lot of additional stuff into the frame and elsewhere in the Taycan, which increases the weight. As a result, the Taycan doesn't have much more space inside the car than a model 3 despite the Taycan being a foot longer and 2 inches wider than the model 3. The Taycan has 10 more cubic feet in the cabin but 5 less cubic feet in the trunk compared to the Model 3, so overall a similar amount of interior space between the two cars, if the rear seats are laid flat.
There are ways to make electric cars lighter. While we all wait for major breakthroughs in solid state batteries which will take many years, Porsche (as a sports car company) might want to start prioritizing weight reduction of their EVs.
Currently, Teslas far outclass Porsche EVs in weight and in power to weight ratio, while of course the Porsche EVs have a superior suspension and superior fit/finish.
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In summary, I hope the reported target weight is correct for the 718 EV and that Porsche will make low weight a priority for 718 EV. If so, I'd definitely consider getting one.
If the Cayman EV becomes a bloated heavy whale like all the other Porsche EVs so far, then I'll keep my M3P.
to Zhao, this is a post I made elsewhere on RL about weight and range and someone was saying that an EV must be very heavy to have good range, and I disagreed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its more complicated than that. In real world testing, the $43,000 Telsa Model 3 dual motor, equaled or beat the range of Taycans that cost triple the money and those same Taycan EVs weigh 1,100 pounds more than those same Tesla model 3 dual motor cars.
https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791...-test-results/
Porsche packs a lot of additional stuff into the frame and elsewhere in the Taycan, which increases the weight. As a result, the Taycan doesn't have much more space inside the car than a model 3 despite the Taycan being a foot longer and 2 inches wider than the model 3. The Taycan has 10 more cubic feet in the cabin but 5 less cubic feet in the trunk compared to the Model 3, so overall a similar amount of interior space between the two cars, if the rear seats are laid flat.
There are ways to make electric cars lighter. While we all wait for major breakthroughs in solid state batteries which will take many years, Porsche (as a sports car company) might want to start prioritizing weight reduction of their EVs.
Currently, Teslas far outclass Porsche EVs in weight and in power to weight ratio, while of course the Porsche EVs have a superior suspension and superior fit/finish.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In summary, I hope the reported target weight is correct for the 718 EV and that Porsche will make low weight a priority for 718 EV. If so, I'd definitely consider getting one.
If the Cayman EV becomes a bloated heavy whale like all the other Porsche EVs so far, then I'll keep my M3P.
I know you didn't make this claim - but I believe the "right" comparison for the Macan 4 is the current Macan S. That matches up performance wise, and the EV is about ~7k more expensive than the current S. That makes the EV a slight premium to the existing car, but it includes some more options as standard (like air suspension), and has a newer interior to justify it somewhat. This allows Porsche to smooth the transition from ICE to EV (at least in the US).
Porsche being a somewhat predictable company....it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually introduce a Macan S model between the current 4 and the turbo, and then introduce a true base (that might only be rwd) at a lower price point. If they wait 1-2 years, they can increment the MSRPs of the current models until the difference between those and the EVs isn't so disruptive.
Porsche being a somewhat predictable company....it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually introduce a Macan S model between the current 4 and the turbo, and then introduce a true base (that might only be rwd) at a lower price point. If they wait 1-2 years, they can increment the MSRPs of the current models until the difference between those and the EVs isn't so disruptive.
Even less so when you factor in base Macan or Macan S resale is traditionally pretty great, and EV's are pretty consistent on being bad. I'll probably be replacing one of my DD's this year and my short list of options includes a Macan S for those reasons. I also am looking at used Taycans if they depreciate much more as I do like buying a slightly used vehicle for half price. I would only consider a used Macan 4 once the EV depreciation kicks in to make it worth the risk of buying one.
Last edited by Zhao; 01-29-2024 at 10:36 PM.
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Chester7 (02-02-2024)
01-29-2024, 10:58 PM
#725
Burning Brakes
I know you didn't make this claim - but I believe the "right" comparison for the Macan 4 is the current Macan S. That matches up performance wise, and the EV is about ~7k more expensive than the current S. That makes the EV a slight premium to the existing car, but it includes some more options as standard (like air suspension), and has a newer interior to justify it somewhat. This allows Porsche to smooth the transition from ICE to EV (at least in the US).
Porsche being a somewhat predictable company....it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually introduce a Macan S model between the current 4 and the turbo, and then introduce a true base (that might only be rwd) at a lower price point. If they wait 1-2 years, they can increment the MSRPs of the current models until the difference between those and the EVs isn't so disruptive.
Porsche being a somewhat predictable company....it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually introduce a Macan S model between the current 4 and the turbo, and then introduce a true base (that might only be rwd) at a lower price point. If they wait 1-2 years, they can increment the MSRPs of the current models until the difference between those and the EVs isn't so disruptive.
01-30-2024, 07:58 PM
#728
Burning Brakes
Well, I’ll go for miracles, even the announced full EV Maserati MC20 will be just 220 lbs heavier than the ICE version MC20
Why on earth any company would take an impractical exotic sports car chassis and put in the worlds most boring locomotion method ever invented is beyond me.
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Chester7 (01-31-2024)
01-31-2024, 01:25 AM
#730
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Well, I’ll go for miracles, even the announced full EV Maserati MC20 will be just 220 lbs heavier than the ICE version MC20
Maserati claims ~3270 lbs, but in the real world (i.e., outside of Italy) the MC20 weighs in at a porky ~3750 lbs, if not more.
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Drifting (02-04-2024)
01-31-2024, 01:31 AM
#731
Porsche better have the solid state batteries for Cayman EVs otherwise they are gonna be fat little pigs.
01-31-2024, 11:45 AM
#732
01-31-2024, 11:57 AM
#733
Well, better than the Italian Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale EV, a whopping 1300 lbs heavier that its ICE version https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-al...e-gas-version#
One way, we can choose between featherweight very old cars (1400 lbs, 904 GTS, Spyder 550, ...) and heavy weight new EVs.
Oh wait, that's not a real choice for the most of us.
waiting ...
One way, we can choose between featherweight very old cars (1400 lbs, 904 GTS, Spyder 550, ...) and heavy weight new EVs.
Oh wait, that's not a real choice for the most of us.
waiting ...
Last edited by Ramon Vennik; 01-31-2024 at 11:59 AM.
01-31-2024, 01:43 PM
#734
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