Taycan Turbo - EPA rated 201 miles
12-19-2019, 01:28 PM
#451
Rennlist Member
Nope... Wrong AGAIN!
Please stop trying to tell me what point I am trying to make (and apparently failing in your case). I'm sorry you don't understand the simile...
***IF*** people had to search for gas stations and wait 30 minutes while they fuel up, then ICE vehicles would not be so attractive. The same thing goes for EV's. EV's are the MOST convenient when you charge them overnight to meet your daily driving requirements..
Please stop trying to tell me what point I am trying to make (and apparently failing in your case). I'm sorry you don't understand the simile...
***IF*** people had to search for gas stations and wait 30 minutes while they fuel up, then ICE vehicles would not be so attractive. The same thing goes for EV's. EV's are the MOST convenient when you charge them overnight to meet your daily driving requirements..
You 'IF' scenario is impossible, like IF the sun rise from the West............
It's not even a valid argument.
12-19-2019, 01:35 PM
#452
12-19-2019, 01:37 PM
#453
Our Volt has blended regen/friction braking on the brake pedal. The transition is very smooth and difficult to detect. GM started manufacturing Volts in 2010, and like I mentioned up-thread, had blended braking in the EV-1 back in the 1990s. A bunch of GM engineers that worked on the EV-1 also worked on the Volt. So they, at least, also get it right. Porsche is way late to that party.
Sold it in "better than new" condition about 3 years old at top BlueBook value. Someone got a really nice ride for 13K! My wife still misses it...
12-19-2019, 01:42 PM
#454
Burning Brakes
Touche'.
But if you are not downshifting and stayed in gear, letting the rpm dropped from high to low to slow down, that's one pedal driving, but that's like coasting though.
Interestingly, speaking of the EV-1, it had a 'coast' button on the side of the shift lever. As I understand it, if you momentarily wanted to bypass the regen and just coast, you could press the button. (Full disclosure: I never got a chance to drive a EV-1, but did see a number of them when they were roaming the earth here in Silicon Valley.)
12-19-2019, 01:57 PM
#455
Burning Brakes
We had a Volt as well. That was a really great car. We loved it! We pretty much only ran the ICE twice a year when the Volt demanded the 6 month old gas be burned off.
Sold it in "better than new" condition about 3 years old at top BlueBook value. Someone got a really nice ride for 13K! My wife still misses it...
Sold it in "better than new" condition about 3 years old at top BlueBook value. Someone got a really nice ride for 13K! My wife still misses it...
12-19-2019, 02:02 PM
#456
The Volt is my wifes daily driver. Although I started test driving them when the Gen 1 Volt was around, I decided to wait for the Gen 2 to come out. Bought one of the first 2016s to hit Silicon Valley. We made it all the way up to #8 in the voltstats Hall of Fame (https://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Achievements). But she now has a 60+ mile r/t commute and lost the ability to charge at work last summer. It is now using a bit of gas every weekday. So our stats have dropped back to #10.
It would kill me every time the ICE started up! With 48 miles of pure EV range we had to watch the numbers and plan our days much more closely (or use a different vehicle).
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whiz944 (12-19-2019)
12-19-2019, 05:03 PM
#457
Burning Brakes
To the topic of people only caring about being able to “fill” their car in 5 mins. I spend all of 5 mins per month, of my life, charging my Model S. It takes me literally 5 seconds to plug it in and 5 seconds to unplug. Also often when people say it only take 5 mins to gas up their car, they are only counting the time standing at the pump. They don’t factor in the times they have to wait in line.
So this part of "filling up" EVs at home is really missed by the automakers and the media, I think -- the huge amount of time saved, which to me is priceless, as is the removed pain of having to actually go to gas stations (especially in the cold of winter), stepping in gasoline at the pump, spilling gas accidentally around the gas filler opening in your car (even a few drops is bad and requires cleaning -- so add another minute of my time often for cleaning up spilled splotches of gas after fill-up).
12-19-2019, 05:09 PM
#458
Not really a stretch. When driving my p-car, which is my only remaining car with a manual tranny, I often use engine braking instead of friction braking. For me, lifting the 'go' pedal for regen in an EV is very similar to lifting the 'go' pedal (in a lower gear) to get engine braking from the ICE. Problem with ICE is that the rpm range is so restricted, compared to EV, that you have shift the stupid gears all the time to optimize it.
Our Volt has blended regen/friction braking on the brake pedal. The transition is very smooth and difficult to detect. GM started manufacturing Volts in 2010, and like I mentioned up-thread, had blended braking in the EV-1 back in the 1990s. A bunch of GM engineers that worked on the EV-1 also worked on the Volt. So they, at least, also get it right. Porsche is way late to that party.
Both Porsche and Audi have been panned on their regen approach in almost every review I've read. Mark my words that they will eventually add an option to allow much more regen, if not full one-pedal driving, via the go pedal.
Our Volt has blended regen/friction braking on the brake pedal. The transition is very smooth and difficult to detect. GM started manufacturing Volts in 2010, and like I mentioned up-thread, had blended braking in the EV-1 back in the 1990s. A bunch of GM engineers that worked on the EV-1 also worked on the Volt. So they, at least, also get it right. Porsche is way late to that party.
Both Porsche and Audi have been panned on their regen approach in almost every review I've read. Mark my words that they will eventually add an option to allow much more regen, if not full one-pedal driving, via the go pedal.
Nonetheless (especially if that's what's affecting the range), I agree Porsche will add One Pedal Driving, or at least give that option for several reasons.
In addition: I agree, engine braking can be used even on ICE cars where applicable (to slow down obviously, instead of stopping). They're some Slush Box vehicles with such aggressive gearing that even in "normal" mode, it which slows your car down immediately as soon as you lift your foot of the accelerator pedal. Some would like that for sure. However, some wouldn't (though you can dial back the mode to ECO, etc.). So, why not place it on the Taycan if so many request. It'll be interesting to see if Porsche doesn't give a damn, like they did for years with their awful version of paddle shifters, or will they see the light when they went the way of the rest of the world with Proper Paddles!? LOL
12-19-2019, 06:15 PM
#459
Nah. Just as many people liked the brakes, if not more so from what I saw. It's not one sided that way in my experience. Nonetheless, I'm aware some felt that way, indeed. From what I could see: It usually/probably had to do with the same "defective" pre-production loaners being passed around like a joint. One, or some had glitchy screens or Hands Off Software/understanding ("Hey Porsche"), one/others had poorer Brake Blend, etc. It also had do with the reviewer, as some rode in the same suspect vehicle and noticed/said nothing.
Nonetheless (especially if that's what's affecting the range), I agree Porsche will add One Pedal Driving, or at least give that option for several reasons.
In addition: I agree, engine braking can be used even on ICE cars where applicable (to slow down obviously, instead of stopping). They're some Slush Box vehicles with such aggressive gearing that even in "normal" mode, it which slows your car down immediately as soon as you lift your foot of the accelerator pedal. Some would like that for sure. However, some wouldn't (though you can dial back the mode to ECO, etc.). So, why not place it on the Taycan if so many request. It'll be interesting to see if Porsche doesn't give a damn, like they did for years with their awful version of paddle shifters, or will they see the light when they went the way of the rest of the world with Proper Paddles!? LOL
Nonetheless (especially if that's what's affecting the range), I agree Porsche will add One Pedal Driving, or at least give that option for several reasons.
In addition: I agree, engine braking can be used even on ICE cars where applicable (to slow down obviously, instead of stopping). They're some Slush Box vehicles with such aggressive gearing that even in "normal" mode, it which slows your car down immediately as soon as you lift your foot of the accelerator pedal. Some would like that for sure. However, some wouldn't (though you can dial back the mode to ECO, etc.). So, why not place it on the Taycan if so many request. It'll be interesting to see if Porsche doesn't give a damn, like they did for years with their awful version of paddle shifters, or will they see the light when they went the way of the rest of the world with Proper Paddles!? LOL
...and conversely...
Most current EV owners would prefer pedal-lift regen (without requiring brake use).
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12-19-2019, 06:35 PM
#460
However, My response had to do specifically with the brake blend feel. Some reviewers said, they could detect it, could do with out. And others said: They didn't notice it at all, and the brakes felt totally natural like an ICE vehicle.
Of course, your answer could be related to this. So, my apologies if it was, I misunderstood.
12-19-2019, 07:22 PM
#461
Burning Brakes
I suspect that the reason behind the regen setup is that both of the Taycan motors are tuned for performance. That means they are more efficient at higher torque (like the i3 here: https://rennlist.com/forums/taycan-a...l#post16287965 and unlike the Bolt motor here: https://rennlist.com/forums/taycan-a...l#post16287847)
The Bolt motor has its highest efficiency point at about 25% of the maximum torque while the I3 has it at maximum torque. Now the EPA tests and normal driving requires little torque. This explains why Taycan's EPA range is low and consumption is high. But the high efficiency at high torque helps keeping the motor's temperature down when driving spirited and results in maximum performance.
And this is why the Taycan guy said a stronger regen wouldn't be more efficient. A stronger - non braking - regen would still be in the inefficient area of the motor, but when pressing the brakes (higher deceleration) the torque climbs up to the better efficiency area. A Bolt motor however can regen efficiently in normal - non braking - deceleration.
The Bolt motor has its highest efficiency point at about 25% of the maximum torque while the I3 has it at maximum torque. Now the EPA tests and normal driving requires little torque. This explains why Taycan's EPA range is low and consumption is high. But the high efficiency at high torque helps keeping the motor's temperature down when driving spirited and results in maximum performance.
And this is why the Taycan guy said a stronger regen wouldn't be more efficient. A stronger - non braking - regen would still be in the inefficient area of the motor, but when pressing the brakes (higher deceleration) the torque climbs up to the better efficiency area. A Bolt motor however can regen efficiently in normal - non braking - deceleration.
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Sambof (12-19-2019)
12-19-2019, 10:15 PM
#463
Rennlist Member
Most of the current EV drivers have been re-educated to using one pedal driving, so that's sort fo something they look for. But they are still a very minority of the total driving population.
Other normal people that's been driving normal cars for eons are used to only using the brakes for braking, and expect the car to coast when lifting off, not slowing down suddenly.
In order for EV to really make realistic gains towards bigger market share, making a EV as normal as possible is the key, so there is no relearning period.
12-19-2019, 10:46 PM
#464
Rennlist Member
it takes like 10 minutes - its not that big a deal - then 1 pedal driving makes sense.
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