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Has anyone typing about efficiency actually driven the car and logged miles? How does a 83KWH battery compare to a 96KWH battery for range? That is 86% of the range right there folks. Tesla quotes 348 miles EPA miles for the Models S performance model which is similar in specs to the Taycan Turbo S. 86% of that EPA number is 299 miles. The car we have here has regularly showed 235-240 miles on the read out with a full charge and now with 600 miles logged on our car that number seems to be on the money unless you do non stop launch controls and drive like a lunatic. The issue with the EPA numbers for us are three fold:
1. No regeneration as this car defaults on start up to coasting. This certainly cost us a lot of range as when using this car you can get up to .39 G of deceleration using regenerative braking only. That is super impressive. Less so off the gas pedal where the car does only a small amount when that mode is engaged. For version 2.0 of this car I would love to see paddle shifters to manage the regenerative braking.
2. Giant gumball tires do little for efficiency and the 20 inch wheel and tire combo adds 12 miles to the range by themselves over the 21 inch Mission E style. This has to be a larger drag on efficiency when you have a 265 and 305 series tires on the car instead of 245/265 ones.
3. 2 speed gearbox is actually hurting the efficiency on the car below 60mph as it keeps the car in first gear which is a more aggressive ratio for the rear larger motor. It is a much better option for Germany and other countries where high speed sustained travel is an important feature. Not so much here in the 70mph restricted USA. This car will easily walk a Tesla Model S from 100mph and up...because of the 2 speed gearbox. But who cares about that here in the USA? The gearbox also adds more weight to the car which is partly to blame for the 200 pound difference between the Taycan and the Model S.
Is the Taycan less efficient compared to the Model S...I think the answer is yes. Is 240 miles of range enough for most of my clients? I think the answer is yes. The Taycan 4S will get another 20 miles or so over the Turbo S for the range anxious folks.
For my Tesla clients that have come in and driven the car with me I have not had one single one say that the Tesla they rolled up in was more impressive, or a better car in any area except for range and the amount of superchargers on the road. Every single one of them has been blown away by the way this car handles (Air Suspension, PDCC,) stops (10 piston Ceramic Brakes), rides (Air Suspension), steers like a Porsche, hides it weight incredibly well, has a real luxury interior, great build quality, fabulous seats, and goes ridiculously fast. Launch control is possible at any time with a spare 2 seconds. Our store car has internally recorded 1.21 G in acceleration, 1.44 G in lateral grip (on all seasons) , 1.14 G in braking, a Vbox recorded 2.64 second 0-60 mph time on those all seasons on a damp road with my arm out the window hanging onto Jason Camissa's Vbox for dear life. Not bad.
This is a deeply impressive car and a great alternative to a Panamera, a 911, M5, E63, or a Tesla. I would suggest to some folks on this forum to type less and go and drive the car and stop writing complete Tolstoy novels, or math thesis on this and that. Go drive the car. You may actually enjoy driving it....despite it being a less efficient ev than the Tesla. For anyone caring about the supercharger network Electrify America is up and running with new charging stations seeming to pop up every week or so:
Free charging at these stations for 3 years. That's not bad either. Anyone in the Bay Area that wants to see what this car can do please stop by and see me.
It is a bit of a puzzle. From a recent article: "After charging, for a driving stint that was mostly a low-speed freeway creep back to a staging area in downtown LA, we averaged 34.7 kwh per 100 miles (and 22 mph) over 13.6 miles. That stint suggested in the vicinity of 250 miles on a full charge."
There also was the video review where they drove that path around southern california, in apparent spirited driving, and with that driving the implied range was over 260 (they drove like 170 miles and had a certain amount left when they got back to the supercharger at Walmart.
It is a bit of a puzzle. From a recent article: "After charging, for a driving stint that was mostly a low-speed freeway creep back to a staging area in downtown LA, we averaged 34.7 kwh per 100 miles (and 22 mph) over 13.6 miles. That stint suggested in the vicinity of 250 miles on a full charge."
There also was the video review where they drove that path around southern california, in apparent spirited driving, and with that driving the implied range was over 260 (they drove like 170 miles and had a certain amount left when they got back to the supercharger at Walmart.
Not a puzzle at all. The phrase YMMV is especially applicable to EV's. That EPA rating is based on a certain overall consumption rate of whatever Wh/mile. It's always possible to drive under that consumption.
It's always possible to drive under that consumption.
my point about that video was that it seemed to be more spirited driving to show off the car (vs. a conservative approach) and they still got 266 miles. So the EPA test had to be way more aggressive and an energy pig to get 25% less.
EDIT.
Just got an Email from Porsche: I bolded one part. That seems to be consistent with the video I mentioned above.
Dear Taycan Enthusiast,
Porsche will soon add a new chapter to its history as the new Taycan arrives in the United States. Among the first Taycan models to arrive will be the Model Year 2020 Taycan Turbo.
The estimated EPA range for the Taycan Turbo is 201 miles.
In preparation for the Taycan launch in the United States, Porsche asked AMCI Testing to conduct independent tests to evaluate the Taycan Turbo range to help customers make more informed decisions. AMCI Testing is an independent automotive research firm, specializing in unbiased evaluations of automotive products.
Tested on AMCI Testing’s “City/Highway Commute Cycle” route on public roads in and around Southern California, the results were calculated by averaging the vehicle’s performance over five test cycles. The Taycan Turbo achieved a range of 275 miles.
More information on AMCI Testing’s results can be found at www.amcitesting.com/taycan. As with all battery-electric vehicles, the actual range of the new Taycan Turbo may vary due to driving conditions, personal driving and charging habits, and battery age.
{sigh} predictable - too bad the efficiency is EPA rated at 427 wh/mile - what a joke!
I'm sure you can do better that this EPA rating but it shows how far Porsche has to go to catch up - the Model X was the previous "worse" EV for range - but now that distinction goes to the Taycan.
I'm hearing 240 miles is pretty doable and the EPA has some focus on areas that hurt Porsche's implementation - but I'll expect .2 to be way better and start chasing performance and efficiency.
I think I found the solution to range. This and a 25 foot charging cable.
On a more serious note, I wonder how a static dyn (rolling road) test can account for regeneration? I wonder if a Tesla with one pedal driving is able to recover some energy from the dyn when they decelerate. The Taycan wouldn't regen until you press the brakes so I don't see it ever able to get a benefit from this. I don't know if the EPA test procedure lets you coast to a stop or how it simulates "real world driving". I find it hard to believe that Tesla is almost twice as efficient unless they are better at the test.
The Taycan Turbo was operated in Normal Mode with Regen set to “Auto” and HVAC to “ECO”
Driving was precisely coordinated at the speed of traffic up to and including the legal speed limit during city driving, and up to 5 MPH over the legal limit on highways
Specific to the AMCI Testing City Route:
The Taycan Turbo was operated in Range Mode with Regen set to “On” and HVAC to “Off”
Driving was precisely coordinated at the speed of traffic up to and including the legal speed limit
Porsche asked AMCI Testing to conduct independent tests to evaluate the Taycan Turbo range to help customers make more informed decisions. AMCI Testing is an independent automotive research firm, specializing in unbiased evaluations of automotive products.
Tested on AMCI Testing’s “City/Highway Commute Cycle” route on public roads in and around Southern California, the results were calculated by averaging the vehicle’s performance over five test cycles. The Taycan Turbo achieved a range of 275 miles.
More information on AMCI Testing’s results can be found at www.amcitesting.com/taycan. As with all battery-electric vehicles, the actual range of the new Taycan Turbo may vary due to driving conditions, personal driving and charging habits, and battery age.
The AMCI test data is worthless unless Porsche gave them a couple of competitors to test.
EPA is the only standard we have data for all US EV's. If my Model X has a 295 mile EPA rating, then I'm assuming a Taycan driven under similar conditions would only go 2/3 of the distance.
Porsche should have been able to test on the EPA cycle prior to launch and known this was a concern. If not, that's poor planning.
This is a competitive fail for a nearly $200k vehicle. The model X sprints faster and gets 50-75% more from a charge. I love Porsches and this is just a niche car.
I find it hard to believe that Tesla is almost twice as efficient unless they are better at the test.
I think you're going to have to give Tesla the "win" here - they are very very good at the whole EV efficiency thing and plenty of real world data supports that they are range masters - so they are not just gaming the test - my Model 3 after 17,000 miles is averaging less than 290 wh/mile (3.4 mi/kwh) in normal daily driving with no particular EV accommodations - it's just brutal efficient. My life time average on my Model X 37,500 miles (a very very inefficient EV) is 350 wh/mile (2.85 mi/kWh) - still better than the Taycan.
when driving consistently at hwy speeds (not too fast) I can push the Model 3 Performance down into the 230-240 wh/mile range - really really effiicient - so it's not just the test and that's with the HVAC running. And I'm running the "inefficient wheels" - apparently the 18" eco wheels are another 5% range at constant hwy speed.
Porsche is this space is really really behind the state of the art. Either Porsche needs to up their game, or you have to admit the the "Porsche" magic is damm expensive and Porsche engineering is simply not up to the task.
The Taycan at 201 with 85 kWh usable is a halarious and deeply embarrassing 422 wh/mile or 2.3 mi/kWh - it's just not right and may demonstrate some fundamental legacy technology addiction that they need to rethink.
Also the Chevy Bolt is in the Tesla neighborhood for efficiency and in several interviews with GM engineers they had to bring in a whole new team of people to "think differently" to achieve those results. Apparently old guard approaches were just not yielding the efficiencies we know are possible, and it was a real shake up of conventional wisdom and some people got "retired" over their aversion to the necessary changes…
The "old guard" is going to have to up their game if they are going to compete in this EV thing. Porsche's got the performance down stone cold solid - now they need to also be efficient.
My life time average on my Model X 37,500 miles (a very very inefficient EV) is 350 wh/mile (2.85 mi/kWh) - still better than the Taycan.
Porsche is this space is really really behind the state of the art. Either Porsche needs to up their game, or you have to admit the the "Porsche" magic is damm expensive and Porsche engineering is simply not up to the task.
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Or one can admit that we can look at what real world usage is actually like. As mentioned earlier, spirited driving through the mountains got 266 miles and the other testing agency had them at 275.
I'll willing to bet the lack of one-pedal driving here is a major factor - good news if that is the case porsche could change the software definition of "auto" setting for their regen - they are paying a heavy price on efficiency for the lack of one pedal driving…
should be a software setting
- Porsche mode - no one pedal driving - blended braking cause we're germans
- auto
- one pedal driving mode cause all you EV guys were right all along - it's not sooo bad...
the porsche people can keep the top setting…
maybe this could be Porsche's first OTA software update!
12-11-2019, 01:10 PM
Taycan Turbo - EPA rated 201 miles
