pcarplayer

Thanks Paul for the tip. I'll try that if i don't get a seat sorted. I only want a seat for track days not full time so comfort is secondary to a secure position as its only for short stints

PP's are nice as a permanent fixture i'll admit and tasty for track days but the buy in for a FIA approved seat are much less than that, circa $800 all in. Removing 30-40 kegs of OEM comfort seats and replacing with one sub 10 kg offers a nice bonus weight saving with the secure driving position. I hear what you say about drivers ed. I agree whole heartedly, and got more out of the PCNZ driver ed day than I thought i would

I have a C2 rear sway bar in the works. And a plan to look closer at the coil-overs in the near future. I believe Mr B has Koni's and an unknown spring so at the very least a shock rebuild, possibly different springs. At this stage i'm not intending to invest in KW's or Bilstein's - at least not until our peso improves, if ever. Tires when my current set wear out. Until i get another set of wheels in don't plan on having a set for street and another for track, if ever. I also want to change the engine/trans mounts and reinforce the engine carrier with a gusset

This week Peter at Gitraps is looking at my geo. I'm aiming for as close to RS settings as possible, possible dropping to front just a tad lower. It depends what the coilovers allow

Ultimately, my plan is to pick the low hanging fruit

Macca

Many truths here.

I agree if you had have had your shock settings better calibrated on the SITT you would have been quicker. I didnt change mine in the 6000km I travelled that summer so 6 front and 8 rear.

The geo makes a difference but so do the tyres. In July at HD I was never comfortable with the cars set up. I had moved to hiem joined rear railing arms and these have little compliance compared to the factory control arms with the rubber in them. I got caught out with tyres after finding a gash in one of my 265 rears which wasnt that old and I was forced to move to the 285 and adjust the camber so it would tuck in under there. The car was over tyred at the rear and telegraphing things much differently on the cold pavement than I had previously experienced. I even spun it over the hill on my last session and thats what made me move on to taking the GT3 out for the final session. It was a backwards step from the SITT and quite frankly Ive not revisited it to sort it out. I tweaked it a little for the NITT last September but Taupo was a wash out and I learned nothing then chucked it all in for the GT3 only strategy for Manfield! The camber and the larger rear tyres (different rolling circumference) were a big part of it. I wont use those again if I take the 993 to the track and will order the 265 rears (I think they are finally in stock!).

Im sure, likewise the fresh 214s you had on the front of the 993 at HD in July gave you the opposite effect to my

I agree in someone else's hands (yourself, Rasso, Owers) my 993 is good for 15's at HD. I doubt Ill ever see that. I've only ever taken it to HD twice and to be honest with the amount I get to that track annually and with as you say a 991 GT3 in the garage its not likely to happen for a long while yet. That's fine as it gives me something to shoot for once the GT3 is gone ;-).

The above experience on SITT then July etc is a lesson to all. You can change too many things at once. Not only that but sometimes yu are forced to compromise when a tyre or a pad isnt available when you need it.

It does highlight another important point for me personally. I manage maybe an average of 5-6 track days a year on 3-4 different tracks. The sessions take place in both summer and winter conditions and with NZ changeable weather everything in between. The driver and car are often the only constant factors in the equation and when the car keeps changing and the driver hasnt seen a track for 5 months it means too many variables to get any meaningful learning or car tweaking done. Too much time between outings means too many things get changed in between (scope creep) and when you get back in the car is different all over again. I dont recommend it to anyone.

At least with the 993 I have years of road seat time and know the platform. With the GT3 take the above an multiply it. I dont think Ill ever get to learn about setting that car up so haven't bothered to do anything about it. To be honest I dont feel anywhere near as "at home" in the GT3 as the 993 on the track even after 5 track days in it (again 3 different tracks).

I can see why Steve had backed off years ago from significantly evolving his little RS rep and his 964 race car. he knows exactly how the car will perform down to a worn front tyre from so many years in them and he can lean on them in total trust extracting every ounce from them. I dont think that will happen for me till I get back into using the 993 at the track and have finished playing with the car (only really engine and some suspension settings left now I guess)...

Macca

Good ideas there Warwick.

I was thinking Recaro PP at around 850 USD via Demon Tweaks in UK plus side brackets around 170 USD. I did the math on these last year and they looked like $1700 NZD landed. But that boat has probably sailed along with the exchange rate...

Walt I wasn't aware PP had FIA cert problems due to broken bases. They have been making and racing this seat now for 20 years so Im surprised.

I dont have an FIA approved seat. My seat isnt Recaro but a knock off in CF. Was bought as a cheapesh experiment mostly for looks then got pressed into service for targa Tour and track work and 4+ years/25k km on of hard use they have held up very well and done the job.

A few things on height. As Paul will tell you dropping height to RS spec doesnt guarrantee improved performance. The RS cars at least in the 993 iteration had different front uprights to ensure no bump steer was present at RS or lower specs. I ran close to RS spec on the road for years with no real perfcieved issues but at the track at speed, under brakes before turn in and on a smooth surface the bump steer became more known. Changing the uprights and tie rods to the RS ones (you may as well do the wheel bearings and front CVs at the same time to save money later - still all up a $4000 job) makes a perceivable difference at RS height or lower on the track as Im sure Paul will agree.

If a simple seat solution for track days only is all you need dont forget the local Racetech guys too. I think thats where I would go as you can try everything else out first. Fitted with hardware you will probably get away with $1500-1800 all in (4000 model or similar).

Yes removing the passenger seat will save almost 30+kg as John knows. Getting a lighter drivers bucket in there will be another 20kg at least. Its a good start for 50kg even if it is a bit of faffing around for half a day before going to the track.

Getting your shocks sorted out I would put near the top of the list. Engine mounts definitely worthy at this age of car, tranny mount less so but its not a big job. I wouldnt bother with the gussett personally. Ive done this - sure its only a few hundred US for the part but then you have to drop the original out weld it all up nicely, spray paint it and refit it and its another job looks like $400 and turns into $1000++. If you were increasing the torque significantly or boosting a turbo car maybe a good idea but unless yours is showing stress cracks I wouldnt fuss too much on that one.

The single thing you identify after the suspension overhaul/geo is the tyres. these require more thought but I doubt there would be a single person in the know on this board dissagree with me that if you are thinking to go to the track more often and the car is essentially a weekend/occasional driver at other times then put some Hankook 221 17s on her. We have all tested them on the road in teh wet and tehy are just fine 9just dont drive through lakes of water) and the grip they give you will be the fastest and cheapest way for you to drop your times 2-3s on the track. They are just phenomenal and on the road make the car impossible to unstick.

These are my thought anyway and others may chip in to debate. Ive always been upfront about telling people what I wouldnt do again. I think the biggest savings and lessons after learning to do it the right way are learning where its not worth going with your hard earned...

Macca

John. Without offence intended your driving position is the most laid back I have ever seen in a 911. Thank god you have long arms. It looks like the driving position of a 1970s Alfa driver from outside the car :-). I think even you will have to agree you are at the extreme decile for a person with a helmet in a 964 (mind you your defence you have a sunroof car which robs you of another 1" or more of headroom). If I were advising someone 6'4"+ who wanted to buy an older 911 for track work I would be strongly telling them to seek a non sunroof car...

Macca

I think it was a worthy effort to get that 1.16.2 and knock Seans 964 ex bridge-stone lightweight RS clone off the RSG fastest air cooled road registrable throne Paul and Im thankful you did :-). That being said Im not sure there was anything left in it other than gutting the interior and dropping the weight 80kg which may have given you half a second tops.

The quickest way you can learn to go fast in the GT3 IMO is to sit on Nigel Cs *** next time you are out! He got all ansy when I asked him if I could do this (he cited not wanting to give away his "special sauce"( back in April, but a few sessions later I saw him towing Jon Warring around and Jon found 2s a lap sitting on his tail! I waved them through half way through a session and sat on their tails for 1.5 laps having a great old time till they pulled off the circuit 2 laps early (and me with them because I thought I must have missed teh flashing green lights!!). Nigel claimed he came in because the car was feeling loose on the damp shoulder as you lay it down after T10, but I didnt have an issue there - maybe he didnt want too many people learning his lines LOL!

Im still in that 6 months "learning to drive it at the track" phase for my GT3 and havent adjusted anything! What I have learnt is when the tyres have passed their use by date (they last well beyond when they have gone off these new MPSC2s). I also noticed changing the brake fluid to SFR made the brake pedal feel firmer initially (my the end of the day I think I had calibrated to it). I cant tell you regards pads yet as Ive only used the factory fitted ones but have had MX72 fitted just before I left.

My thought (again) are find some commonly accepted agreed Geo settings and tyre recommendations for the model GT3 you have (lots of experience on the British and US boards) and stick with those till you absolutely understand the platform. your biggest challenge IMO will be getting the best out of those Trofeo Rs in the first instance - they are sensitive tyres to work with - in hindsight jumping in with some Dunlop DS3 or Toyo 888/ Nitto Nt01 might have been easier...

John McM

No offence taken When Steve first fitted the seats he said it was too low for me. First time that's happened in fair few decades. I said leave it as I enjoy having headroom. Anyone cramped in a car will know that it unsettles you if going fast, so I just got used to the position. Now that I'm comfortable and not having any back issues (I had back surgery in 1988) I've left well alone.

I doubt I could drive a Cayman with normal seats and a helmet, let alone worrying about a sunroof. Luckily neither are issues for me, albeit LFB is difficult in the R because a lot of my extra height is in my legs.

Kiwi Carguy

One option is just to buy something like this http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-...-912210407.htm or similar and have it re-trimmed with leather or suede/alcatara and you could even add Carrera in the headrest or whatever. I did this years ago on a recaro that was Ex Evo Mitsi and had the Porsche shield embroided in the headrest and they looked great for a track seat.

pcarplayer

Great advice Macca. Interesting what you say about the gusset. I always understood it was deemed mandatory rather than a nice to have when uprating the mounts. Perhaps there is a degree of FUD about this?! I'm relatively gentle on the car, ahem, so possibly not something to concern myself about. I've been waiting until the engine gets dropped to do the gusset/mounts as a "while your in there". If its just the mounts then i might do it sooner rather than later

Macca

I'm 3" shorter than you and have the same LFB issue in the GT3 with the GT2 buckets you have. Left knee fouls the bottom of the wheel on a quick move. I'm longer in the leg than torso for my height too. Pete's the opposite. He touched the sunroof in his 964 with helmet on and I think hes the same height as I am (I dont touch the lining). Each individual is different which is why, like shoes seats are a risk if bought sight unseen and untried over the internet.

Maxem

Looking back, I would have fitted it myself and done a better job of it. I might as well have as it came in and out several times after the pro's had a go to get it into the right position. In the end it was great but I did sell it on because the car was up for sale and Doug preferred more of a road spec.
I think it was a Sabelt GT30 and could have been all in for under a grand (but it wasn't). Lesson there.
Fitting a seat in my car was nothing to do with lap times, it was just about removing the distraction of holding yourself in, which would contrubute to lap times if that is your thing. That and it was what I wanted to do on my 964 journey at the time. Reasearch, procuring, doing. Same goes for all the mods we do.

pcarplayer

Dave, did the Sabelt GT30 ultimately fit once you messed about with it? What issues did you have at the time? Its one of my candidates.

nzskater

That looks like a decent option. What would your upholsterers likely charge for this recover Warwick?

floatingkiwi

Guys - REGARDING TPC MODULE.

We still only have chris and I, with doug on if we can get a 4th person, as 4 or over is much more advantageous to us than 2-3.

So, do we have a fourth person???

Doug - are you still interested if we only get the 3?

Matt

996tnz

Warwick, Dave's same Sabelt GT30 is now in the Grinch, if you're wanting to try it out for size.

Kiwi Carguy

Wow this would be nuts!