996tnz

Is it too early to hope a 919 might make a guest appearance at the Porsche Festival of Speed? And - if Porsche are doing requests - a 917 would be high on the wish list too. Cheeky I know, but hey - don't ask, don't get and all that...

Exciting times!

pcarplayer

Its a dilemma all us with older cars constantly have. I really enjoy spanking the car around the track. One part of me says that's what the car was designed for. The other half says sure, but that was 25 years ago.

Aadjan and i had the very same conversation regarding the Caymans. Regardless what they look like (I don't think they look bad at all) and the derision they were originally given by 911 owners/fans, they have to be better value proposition for regular track beatings? Perhaps because of what they (supposedly) represent would we be willing to cane them more regularly than our "precious metal"?

I wonder if we get the same feeling driving Caymans around a track. Sure its a Porsche and you get to play with the other Porsches' but aren't we missing the quintessential steer from the rear experience of the 911? If we don't care, then why limit ourselves to Porsches for that track hit?

Of course a lot of this has already been discussed on this forum and other "thinking men" here have already made the leap. J-Mac: Time to get the R on track.

peterC2S

Yes - and a classic that they had no kiwi flag for the podium! The fact that he went on to another stage win on the final day after the problems on Saturday shows that he's a genuine contender for the future. Rest of the season should be epic.

peterC2S

Can't speak for the R, but I took my Cayman S on track in the South Island - and while it was fun it wasn't in the same league as the 964. There's something analogue about the older cars, heavier steering and 'butt-feel'. All of that is taken up a notch further with the 944 which is an awesome track car and what I'd recommend to anyone wanting a Porsche track car and not able to stretch to a GT3 or Cayman R.

996tnz

The Cayman is a brilliantly handling car and I still remember how sure the CCS one felt in the bent slalom at my first Performance Driving day. Have never looked down on them (they are still a driver's car, even if less hairy), but I do prefer the later styling, particularly the better resolved rear roof/hip lines and the Carrera GT inspired intakes.

There are degrees of hairyness though. Sometimes (in the absence of someone volunteering a blower Bentley) I reckon we should put together a field of Massey Ferguson 35s and race Hampton with them. Only problem being that RSG might need to put out a call for new members afterwards...

John McM

Warwick, it's a well discussed topic and there hasn't really been a conclusion to date. The air-cooled cars are well built with dry sumps and there's no reason why they would be ruined by track driving as long as they are well maintained. However, in a group of mixed cars, the air-cooled cars will make you work harder if it's about track times. Weather aside, Doug and I had a good drive on Sunday, because we chose to bring comparable cars. We will do the same on the East Cape run. Maybe thats the way to get more out there?

Before the wider group starts to think of cheaper water pumpers as an option, be aware of their weaker points as well. That's one reason why Doug bought Lola. It's also the reason that Peter and I went for Gen II Caymans. That said, its hard to walk past Herman for track work as I've already fronted up for track tyres, harness bar, harness etc. If I'm going to do the R the right way, its $4,000 up front for the tyres to keep it competitive in its group.

996tnz

We could pimp them a little first of course:

kiwi 911

The 919 will be there, but a model.............

kiwi 911

^^^ There is no right or wrong answer. You are either loaded and take a new car to the track, or you are not loaded and spend a lot of money sorting an older car to go to the track.

There isn't really an in-between. Like John said with his Cayman R, he instantly needs to spend $4K on tyres, and probalby another $1,500 on a big service changing all the fluids etc. Pads would be ideal too ($1k?)............

I have just sneezed $7K on the GT3 with tyres, a big service changing all the fuilds, a geo and replacing a mssing chin spoiler and brake duct..........

If you where to take a C4 to the track, you need to budget about $10K-15K to get it into track shape (minor suspension rebuild, track tyres, big service with fresh fluids, brake cooling ducts, pads, geo etc.) this will make your car a similar spec to Doug and John.

kiwi 911

On the Cayman subject - will be very interested to see how Chris's project goes.

Chris do you have any pic's yet??

John McM

Having driven both at the track I can give a comparision. The 964 C4 steering is heavy compared to the R but its handling is very predictable. I haven't got myself into much trouble with it. The R is a hyperactive teenager by comparison. It feels alive but inherently harder to drive, as I suspect many Caymans are at the limit. So it depends what you want, predictability or the ability to place the car dynamically

John McM

Pretty much correct. If there was an obvious lower cost way to do this, someone in the group would have worked it out. Well actually there is a lower cost way. You bring your well maintained road tyred car to the track and you enjoy it for what it is. If the tyres go off, you button off or sit out a session. If the GT3 is up your butt you waive him/her on. Unfortunately not many of us seem to be wired this way.

Macca

You don't have to be loaded to take a new Porsche to the track and Im living proof! If you buy right on the way in you could even own and drive one at the track for a few years before selling it and coming out even....

There is such a big difference between driving the latest GT3 and the 993 at the track its barely worth discussing. The 993 with track preparation/modifications will give you mid 1.16s at HD and the GT3 with no preparation gives you 3s quicker. They are so different to drive its hard to compare. They are both thrilling to drive for quite different reasons.

The issue as addressed is that there isnt a cheap fix here. Ideally you need a Gen2 Cayman/Boxster with a few minor modifications to go to the track (tyres, pads, fluids, geo, possibly brake booster etc). So you are looking at 70-90K for a reliable "mid engine" option here.

A 964/993 as Paul says needs a bit more work to make it reliable for the track given age and also performance envelope. If you bought a good manual car and did the required it would owe you somewhat similar money to the mid engine options.

IMO the older cars are more involving on the track for someone getting into the sport. Its not as simple as the MT (thats a liability as well as a plus point for the rookie - longevity and wear and tear etc - the gearbox can be more expensive to rebuild these days than doing a top end!). For me its partly the weight/size thing but mostly its the way the chassis really communicates through the butt at the limit. The lack of rpm and torque is the only downside really, but theres plenty here to keep someone busy learning the craft for a long long while.

None of us are taking a 964RS/993RS to the track - just the cooking variety C2/C4. Sure they arent falling from trees these days but they are hardly a scarce or unobtainable commodity yet either. We may be one of the last generations to really get to enjoy these cars for what they are on road and track so I believe we owe it to ourself and our brethren to enjoy every ounce we can squeeze out of them before they are relegated to the history books once and for all!

If you can stretch a little further and want a later model solution that hits most bases whilst providing a very low cost of ownership consider the GT4 at 150K. Ive been speaking with two owners in Europe who are already thrashing these around the Ring & Spa (one managing a 7.32 BTG time at R!) and they seem very kind on tyres and brakes. It looks like running costs will be 1/3 cheaper than GT3 which already has beaten most expectation in terms of longevity of tyres and pads. As the do all Porsche its the best balance of cost vs benefit and it has a MT box too. better still it should be inflations proof if you import one for a few years meaning lots of advantages few disadvantages (well as Walt says, its not a 911 being the biggest one perhaps).

Great result for the Kiwis & Porsche. Finally we are back on the lemans top podium. I watched the start and stayed up for the end. It appears reliability issues are in the past and the conditions were favourable for tyres. Its still a close thing as evidenced by the Audis fastest lap of the race but it doesn't matter Porsche won! :-)

RS ZWEI

I was just about to post this but you bet me to it. It would be rude of Porsche not too

RS ZWEI

Cant say Ive heard anything about a ticker tape parade for Bamber and Hartley? Oh, thats right, we live in New Zealand . . .