GT3 Techno

I totally agree with you. The black car line was predictable and there was no suddend movement from him. He was preparing for the next right-hander on the race line and was clearly in front. These were 2 fast cars and both drivers knew what they were doing.

Here is a short clip of a similar "moment" but in different conditions... a slower car that was having a race within the race (which I totally respect) pushing me off track while there was plenty of room for a 3 wide pass in the back straight. I thought (hope I was right) that the guy didn't see me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im4PI63CQoE

I am just a rookie with the last racing weekend at Mosport being my first race experience (other than formula 125 kart races) and I was a bit concerned by how things went. I got the car last fall and was serious about getting comfortable with it before racing it so I spent over 45 hours of seat time in it in lapping and practice sessions. Sprint #1 was so much fun that I was hooked immediately. Sprint #2 was chaos... and I don't understand why someone could think he can gain few positions over faster drivers before corner 3 and block them for the rest of the race. It's obvious to me that if these guys were really faster, they will pass you back sooner than later so why taking the risk of going in the wall (and worst bringing other cars with you...) ? This kind of thing make me re-think about racing in Club Races...

Agressivity goes with racing in my opinion but you have to be in control of what you are doing at all time. May be there should be separate run groups for people who don't care about wrecking their car and people who can't afford (or simply don't want) to repair extensive damages after half of their races...

GT3 Techno

Clip your front end ? You mean that you "touched" at the apex the rear fender of a car with a 15-20 seconds faster lap time ? I can't believe this poor guy got a penality for this... Were you fighting to gain that position back or what ?

GT3 Techno

As a rookie, I'm probably not the best person to make a judgment on this, but I had a pretty good view of how it all started. Look at the rear brake lights before he lost it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-DizJYlJN8

And the view from another car involved that was unfortunately not as lucky as many of us were on that start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNuVZzbaHOA

mark kibort

I dont know who that driver is, but that was a real stupid move too. fun to stick the nose in around that area, but never never should you EVER let someone close the door on you so hard that you lose control. not that bad of an incident, but its a pro race, why do you want to spin in a race. why also, would you put your $250k car in harms way . He did, im sure had some pretty nice bills to pay to fix his own little damage, but that poor schmuck that clipped him and went sailing off track flipping out of control! that car is probably near a total loss. I do realize that this kind of stuff happens in the supercup series all the time, but that was just plain sad!

Now, I dont know the experience level of the spinning drivers. heck, pros spin all the time when they make errors, just like rookies. its kind of the nature of the sport, but im sure the other racers here would have put themselves in this situation at that turn. for what? its not a passing turn, its a risky move, and only kills the real spot to pass going into the following turn 5 braking zone!

mark kibort

ok, so kind of side topic, but I see your frustration, but that car had every right to move over, and I would have been pissed too, or actually disappointed that i didnt see that coming. that happens to us in the SCCA mixed class races too, but its usually a miata or something that should see you coming, know that you are going to pass on that line, but continues to move over and shut a door. the nice guys just kind of stay in the middle of the track allowing guys to go around them, even on both siides. Your in traffic, you had the faster car, but he was fading to the outside. really nothing you could have done, but drive in the dirt, or fake like you are going to pass and then dart to the left side. as you know, blocking, traditionally, is really two moves Everyone gets one move to protect a line. I had someone do this in a POC race a bunch of years ago. but then, as I went to the other side, they wanted that line too. so, that is a blocking manuver. Im sure you probably got around him later anyway, right?

GT3 Techno

I understand that blocking is part of racing when you are in a fight for a position. In this case, I was going to lap him and there was no fight at all... he wasn't in my mirrors few corners after.

mark kibort

that is ugly! thats all stuff we all have to pay for ourselves. I dont like to see this. did all that come out of that first video white car losing control to the left and then spinning on the track and causing the mayhem or was it a different problem. (bob was referring to a guy losing a suspension part that caused him to spin) Or is it guys that cant keep control of their cars on the first few turns? they all look so spastic! "trying to win the race on the first turn" syndrome.

how lucky was that yellow car! wow, just blew through the carnage like days of thunder!

bummer!

EDIT: i see , same accident, different views. i think the second video guy should have been leaning toward the inside of the track (left) during that car in front of him locking up. It always seems the inside line seems to be safter. guys on the outside, and others not aware behind, always take the outside wide line to go though trouble. not a guarantee , but a safe bet. Also, it also seems that many of these accidents can be avoided if the guy that spins for whatever reason, puts both feet in!!! that locks in his trajectory and is much more predictable! Ive seen most all bad wrecks from guys that just let their cars spin and travel back and forth accross the race track, until they stop rolling.

mooty

i agree with mark on blocking.
even if you move off the race line, as long as you move ONCE, it's not really blocking in my books. i get that move all the time just go around him.

usually if htere are just two cars, i expect the other car to do whatever he wants and i try to anticipate it. it's when there are 3-4 cars in a corner where i will back out unless i trust the guys i race with. some ppl drive a fast line but dont have the car control when it gets very tight. it doesn't matter who's at fault. if he take you out, our 09 cup is very $$ to repair.

we have guys in SM in our region when when he comes by, ppl literally just wave him by. not b/c he's all that fast. but he's wild and drives like a pin ball. if you are anywhere close, he will take you out.

i love race stats, it's fun and what a rush.
but also dangerous.
on a race where there were only 8 cars, i saw a car gone off. i veered off into dirt about 150 feet off pavement. i thought i was ok and waited for traffic to clear. clunk.... that car somehow found me and took my rear bumper off. while that's part of racing, but realy that was the first turn of first lap. we got 25 min to go.

mooty

if he's being lapped, then he has no business there period. sometimes it's red mist, on his part.

GTL a nor cal class is very competitive. they are all faster than my box. if i wave one by, i make sure i wave all of them by. b/c if didn't do that, the car that's behind me is done for the race will never be able to catch up. sometimes, racers forget about that.

cgomez

Sorry about that. It was me driving the Martini Cayman. A bit of context is missing in that section since its preceded by a slight kink to the left after 5b (all the track moves left). If I'm passing somebody at that spot I leave them some room to go wider than the left side of the track so they were not forced to pinch that turn which may or may not cause them problems. I will always give enough room once someone is by me, but you chose to go for it while i was predictably moving in that direction.
The other Cayman chose to stay tight so and the end there was the room for me to have been closer to him, but me being the car making the pass in CLub Racing is my understanding that it is my responsibility to make that pass safe, and sometime it means lifting or allowing extra space.
Expecting not to lift at all or adjust your line to make a safe lapping pass I think is what some people are complaining about unnecessary level of aggression (Not criticizing, Im aggressive too when lapping traffic and have been in this same situation many times in many races and I blame myself for going after a decreasing size gap in a multicar situation, instead of just waiting 0.5s for the situation to be totally predictable and avoid contacts or offs).

Larry Herman

Good of you to explain that Carlos. I was a little surprised myself.

I really think that the thread should be changed to "Has club racing gotten too stupid?" There is nothing wrong with a very aggressive but high percentage move. That is racing, and without that we may as well be doing DEs. Most of the problems come from the obviously low percentage, poorly executed and just plain bone-head moves, as well as the thoughtless, lack of awareness moves from the passee. That's not aggression, that's stupidity.

ZSA Motorsport

guy is driving a cayman and drives it as good as anyone. no cayman is going to stay with a cup car. ive driven with Gomez and he knows quite well what he is doing, is a skilled driver and i have never seen him 'shut the door' on anyone

that turn 5C runs off naturally to the right. infact the line he took would be precisely the line i would let my car naturally run to. you can in a cup get out of 5b quicker than him , and with more power u just came up in his blind spot. he didnt fade to the right aggressively but let the car naturally run out.
you just ran out there more quickly and you were 3 wind coming out of 5C.

i wouldnt make much of it. its racing. that stuff happens. noone at fault. no harm no foul.

Ritter v4.0

Where drovers make preventable bonehead moves, perhaps they should be adorned with one of these for the next event (and/or pose naked and pregnant on the cover of a major mag). A is for . . . .:

GT3 Techno

I agree and that's why I wasn't offended at all. I assumed he didn't see me and it is actually good experience for a rookie like me. I didn't feel like I was in danger as there was enough room (with 2 wheels in the grass for a second) for me to lift the throttle. I wasn't expecting the move but was prepared for it in case it would happen.

GT3 Techno

Thanks for sharing. No offense and good experience for me.