Has Club Racing Gotten Too Aggressive?
08-10-2010, 01:52 PM
#181
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Or how about the near whole race yellow from cor 3 through to cor 4 for a car that had pulled off the track. Never, ever, have I seen a full race steady yellow at Mosport for a pull off. You either have an unsafe situation that needs to be addressed (full course yellows and a tow) or you make the drivers aware of the situation and that the car will not be moving by giving two race laps under a steady yellow and then dropping the flag. It didn't help that the driver REFUSED to get out of the car when directed to by the corner workers at station 4. He sat in the car for the whole race. Nothing makes us more mental then that. Get out of your car - we'll wave the yellow as you do - don't try to drive the process along thinking you can force a tow from race control when clearly after quite a few laps - that wasn't going to happen. $%&*@#^!! What part of causing pass under yellow issues don’t we understand? It’s not like the flag position at cor 3 was ideal. When we are allowed to have more workers the usual flag position is drivers right at the entrance to cor 3 and not behind the fence, well into the apex of cor 3. Not ideal and not our doing – we just do what we are told when we only have two workers per corner.
There is a reason this weekend went silly and it starts and stops at the very top of club racing. I'm a member of PCA and it was upsetting me to the point where I may not work another PCA event as a flagger again. It was just so embarrasing.
does everyone know if you leave 2 wheels on the track, they have to call a full course yellow, and tow you... (probably into the pits)... where you can fix it and get back into the race ( but don't do that!)
I've only worked grid on pca races, but the confusion was memorable... it does suprise me the PCA Stewards were so, unorganized.... and what seemed like seat of the pants decisions... (These are paid stewards? right?)
08-11-2010, 11:30 AM
#182
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08-11-2010, 06:05 PM
#184
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Seems like just a few years ago Club Racing was the end all if you had a race prepped Porsche. There were hardly ANY Porsche running NASA, SCCA and I don't even know if PBOC or POC were around then, but the point is there weren't many options if you didn't club race.
This meant that losing a year due to the 13/13ths rule was devastating. However now with NASA having stepped up, and all kinds of alternate racing venues, there is less incentive to care about being banned from PCA because you can go straight to NASA, where plenty of Porsche's race now and be just fine.
Just my observation from talking with former and current club racers.
This meant that losing a year due to the 13/13ths rule was devastating. However now with NASA having stepped up, and all kinds of alternate racing venues, there is less incentive to care about being banned from PCA because you can go straight to NASA, where plenty of Porsche's race now and be just fine.
Just my observation from talking with former and current club racers.
08-11-2010, 06:32 PM
#185
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Seems like just a few years ago Club Racing was the end all if you had a race prepped Porsche. There were hardly ANY Porsche running NASA, SCCA and I don't even know if PBOC or POC were around then, but the point is there weren't many options if you didn't club race.
This meant that losing a year due to the 13/13ths rule was devastating. However now with NASA having stepped up, and all kinds of alternate racing venues, there is less incentive to care about being banned from PCA because you can go straight to NASA, where plenty of Porsche's race now and be just fine.
Just my observation from talking with former and current club racers.
This meant that losing a year due to the 13/13ths rule was devastating. However now with NASA having stepped up, and all kinds of alternate racing venues, there is less incentive to care about being banned from PCA because you can go straight to NASA, where plenty of Porsche's race now and be just fine.
Just my observation from talking with former and current club racers.
And don't forget the Golden Gate Time Trial series up here. It wasn't wheel-to-wheel, but damned close when you were out there.
All-in-all I think the best venues for Porsche racing are with POC down South, and PRC up here. PRC doesn't have 13/13, and everyone behaves. My single car "oops" in '03 might be one of last car casualties in that series!
08-11-2010, 08:21 PM
#186
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Track property is covered* under PCA insurance. (Guardrails/tire walls and the like.) I think the regions buy the policy and get coverage for other issues such as hazmat teams showing up for clean up's in the pits when oil cooled 911's lose that loving feeling. Just kidding)
If you wreck a guardrail/tirewall/fence, etc. and the track sends a bill, the driver pays the bill, not the region.
If you dump oil on the track, you pay a hefty fee for all that gold plated kitty litter...
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08-11-2010, 09:11 PM
#187
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Same at Tremblant. I once bought 90 freaking feet of guard rail ... not that I wanted to mind you. Oil spill on the track in case you wondered.
08-11-2010, 11:34 PM
#188
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"It didn't help that the driver REFUSED to get out of the car when directed to by the corner workers at station 4."
In all my years of track driving and instructing one of the points that we *always* hammer into to everyone is to *never* leave your car if you go off track unless it's on fire.
Getting out of your car while the track is hot is the height of stupidity. I don't care if a corner worker is waving at me to get out of my car, if it isn't on fire, I'm staying in my car, helmet and harnesses on. I'd much rather get hit in my car then get hit outside of it.
If I'm off track and unable to get back on and I'm deemed to be in an unsafe spot, it's up to race control to send out the safety car and tow me off.
In all my years of track driving and instructing one of the points that we *always* hammer into to everyone is to *never* leave your car if you go off track unless it's on fire.
Getting out of your car while the track is hot is the height of stupidity. I don't care if a corner worker is waving at me to get out of my car, if it isn't on fire, I'm staying in my car, helmet and harnesses on. I'd much rather get hit in my car then get hit outside of it.
If I'm off track and unable to get back on and I'm deemed to be in an unsafe spot, it's up to race control to send out the safety car and tow me off.
08-11-2010, 11:51 PM
#189
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08-11-2010, 11:56 PM
#190
"It didn't help that the driver REFUSED to get out of the car when directed to by the corner workers at station 4."
In all my years of track driving and instructing one of the points that we *always* hammer into to everyone is to *never* leave your car if you go off track unless it's on fire.
Getting out of your car while the track is hot is the height of stupidity. I don't care if a corner worker is waving at me to get out of my car, if it isn't on fire, I'm staying in my car, helmet and harnesses on. I'd much rather get hit in my car then get hit outside of it.
If I'm off track and unable to get back on and I'm deemed to be in an unsafe spot, it's up to race control to send out the safety car and tow me off.
In all my years of track driving and instructing one of the points that we *always* hammer into to everyone is to *never* leave your car if you go off track unless it's on fire.
Getting out of your car while the track is hot is the height of stupidity. I don't care if a corner worker is waving at me to get out of my car, if it isn't on fire, I'm staying in my car, helmet and harnesses on. I'd much rather get hit in my car then get hit outside of it.
If I'm off track and unable to get back on and I'm deemed to be in an unsafe spot, it's up to race control to send out the safety car and tow me off.
08-12-2010, 12:06 AM
#191
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I agree with docwyte, one of the PCA rules they beat into our head is DO NOT get out of your car. If you are behind the wall, completely safe....maybe. But if you are AT ALL near the track, not me.
In fact, I took off my helmet once, sitting in the car (it was hot, and 20 minutes into a 90 minute enduro), way off track at a race. I got reamed out by race control, the steward and everyone else. They almost gave me a 13 for it.
In fact, I took off my helmet once, sitting in the car (it was hot, and 20 minutes into a 90 minute enduro), way off track at a race. I got reamed out by race control, the steward and everyone else. They almost gave me a 13 for it.
08-12-2010, 12:14 AM
#192
I agree with docwyte, one of the PCA rules they beat into our head is DO NOT get out of your car. If you are behind the wall, completely safe....maybe. But if you are AT ALL near the track, not me.
In fact, I took off my helmet once, sitting in the car (it was hot, and 20 minutes into a 90 minute enduro), way off track at a race. I got reamed out by race control, the steward and everyone else. They almost gave me a 13 for it.
In fact, I took off my helmet once, sitting in the car (it was hot, and 20 minutes into a 90 minute enduro), way off track at a race. I got reamed out by race control, the steward and everyone else. They almost gave me a 13 for it.
08-12-2010, 02:09 AM
#193
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Yes, POC was started in 1955. Their concept of maintaining racing room seems to eliminate so many of the issues discussed here and keeps the racing clean, as it should in this club environment: cars must co-exist on track and leave racing room regardless. And by being a tight-knit club/group, people on 13/13's are known, and you usually give those folks even more racing room! The POC provides a great venue to race nice, expensive cars in a very well managed and fun environment. Having raced with the POC for 14 years, comparing my past and current experience makes my answer to the thread's question a "yes" - the way you guys describe "club" racing appears to be more aggressive than what we do with the POC.
08-12-2010, 02:11 AM
#194
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08-12-2010, 04:56 AM
#195
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I believe POC started in the '50s. And they started wheel-to-wheel maybe just after PCA started the Club Racing program. But the seriousness of their Time Trial series was epic, even when I first showed up just as a helper with friends in the early '80s.
And don't forget the Golden Gate Time Trial series up here. It wasn't wheel-to-wheel, but damned close when you were out there.
All-in-all I think the best venues for Porsche racing are with POC down South, and PRC up here. PRC doesn't have 13/13, and everyone behaves. My single car "oops" in '03 might be one of last car casualties in that series!
And don't forget the Golden Gate Time Trial series up here. It wasn't wheel-to-wheel, but damned close when you were out there.
All-in-all I think the best venues for Porsche racing are with POC down South, and PRC up here. PRC doesn't have 13/13, and everyone behaves. My single car "oops" in '03 might be one of last car casualties in that series!
I remember a time when guys really respected the 13/13ths rule, and if that has changed, it seems logical that the respect is gone, and if it's gone, it's because guys either don't care about missing a whole year in the race car they put together or they have other options.