multi21

Wayne, I'm not saying MS was on the computer putting in CFD equations, however, there is the theory and build and then the application in real world conditions. The wind tunnels can only do so much as there are a lot of other factors that they cannot measure, which have to applied on various tracks aside from Fiorano. Wake from a leading car, cross winds, etc. are difficult to duplicate in a tunnel. This is where a driver with good feedback and technical knowledge is invaluable. Whether it's 5% or more is debatable. Ask Honda how their tunnel figures screwed up their entire year and neither Button or Rubens could help much in correcting the car.

Flying Finn

Oh you sissy, by the time Monza rolls in, even you've know for months about Alonso's 2 year deal.

A.Wayne

By Michele Lostia and Pablo Elizalde Tuesday, December 11th 2007, 10:29 GMT

Renault team boss Flavio Briatore says the French squad have reinforced their structure in a determined effort to return to the top of the Formula One field.

The team, world champions in 2005 and 2006, endured a disappointing 2007 season, finishing on the podium only once on their way to third place in the constructors' championship following the disqualification of McLaren from the standings.

But Briatore, whose team confirmed yesterday the return of two-time champion Fernando Alonso, says Renault have already taken measures to move closer to the sharp end of the grid.

"We have reinforced our technical structure, added 30 million euro to our budget and hired Alonso with the objective of getting back to winning some races in 2008 already," Briatore was quoted as saying by Gazzetta dello Sport.

Briatore is convinced Alonso's return will be a boost for Renault, as he rated the Spaniard as "the number one, the best driver around together with (Michael) Schumacher. In fact he makes less mistakes than Michael.

"While we were separated neither of us won, so now we hope we can repeat our success. Fernando isn't coming back for the money. What counts here is the human aspect."

Alonso returns to Renault after a year with the McLaren team.

mitch236

What's he smoking!! If MS had been in Alonso's seat last year, he would be celebrating #8! MS would never let Hamilton get into his head the way Alonso did!!!!

A.Wayne

ltc

I still think this thread and F1 discussions are worthy of its own forum.....however I do realize that GR did set the bar pretty low on getting a new forum setup.

A.Wayne

Comparision between Piquet Jr and Heiki , a lot of talk has been made about these 2 drivers , with piquet winning out as teammate , because he is supposedly less of a "threat " Leading up to F1 both drivers had similar results both finished 2nd to Rosberg ( Heiki ) and Hamilton ( piquet) in GP2.

Piquet JR

In 2003, Piquet moved to the UK where he joined the British Formula 3 Championship and formed the Piquet Sports team. He went on to win 3rd place with six wins, five podiums and eight pole positions.

In 2004, Piquet won the British Championship. He became the youngest driver to have ever won the championship at 19 years and 2 months. He also went to test for BMW Williams now Williams F1.

In 2005, Piquet took part in the A1 Grand Prix for A1 Team Brazil. In the first event in the series, he took first place in both Sprint and Main race events, as well as scoring a point for the fastest lap. He also became a driver for HiTech/Piquet Sports in the GP2 Series. He also was also testing for BAR-Honda.

In 2006, Piquet gained second place in the championship to British driver Lewis Hamilton in his second year of GP2.

During the 2007 season he was a test driver for the Renault Formula One team.[2]

He has been promoted to the race team for the 2008 season, which will see him driving alongside Fernando Alonso who returns to the Renault Formula One team.


Kovalainen

Heiki began his car racing career in the British Formula Renault championship, which fellow Finn Kimi Räikkönen had won the previous year before moving straight into Formula 1 with Sauber. Kovalainen's apprenticeship in the junior categories of motor sport was more conventional, but was remarkable in that he used Renault power at every step along the way.[1]
He finished fourth in the championship with two wins, two pole positions and three fastest laps, and earned the Rookie of the Year award.
Formula 3
Kovalainen attracted the support of the Renault Driver Development programme and in 2002 moved up to the British F3 series with Fortec, who used Renault engines. He became one of the most competitive drivers on the grid by the second half of the season and all five of his wins came in the final nine races. With three pole positions, three fastest laps and third overall in the championship behind Robbie Kerr and James Courtney[1] he was again Rookie of the Year.
He also demonstrated strong form in the international F3 rounds, with second place at the Macau Grand Prix and fourth place at the Zandvoort Marlboro Masters.
World Series by Nissan
Kovalainen moved into the Renault-owned World Series by Nissan in 2003 - but faced a tough team mate at the Gabord team in Franck Montagny. Montagny had already spent two seasons in the World Series by Nissan and won the title in 2001.[1] Montagny won the title with nine wins to Kovalainen's one.
The Finn stayed in World Series by Nissan for 2004 but moved to the Pons team and won the championship ahead of Tiago Monteiro, with 192 points and six wins.[1]
In 2005, Kovalainen entered the GP2 Series, the new 'feeder' series for F1 and the successor to Formula 3000. Kovalainen won the first ever round of the new championship and led the championship with the Arden International team.[1] But in the final four rounds a resurgent Nico Rosberg took over the lead of the championship and Kovalainen finished second, 15 points adrift.


Based on their pre f1 history , Piquet Jr and Heiki are pretty even with JR winning a championship in the much more prestigious and difficult British F3 , over heiki Nissan championship . There is no justification to believe that Piquet will be any easier a teammate than Heiki and non to believe that Alonso had anything to do with this , let the games begin.....

Flying Finn

Yeah sure, with one F1 season under his belt, Heikki wouldn't give more trouble to Alonso than Piguet...
Not to mention the fact Heikki would only agree to drive with equal terms, Piquet however is ok to be #2, of course that doesn't makes any differense to Alonso.

We all know Alonso didn't want another battle with equal driver as he did at McLaren, he needs to have a clear #2 as he had with Fisicella so Piquet as clear #2 is a perfect deal for our little Spanish *****.

BTW, since you were comparing them to, you left out comparing their results when they drove with equal equipment in 2005 GP2 series?

A.Wayne

Wow, finn, a lot of factual suppositions there,

Piquet Jr will drive as a number 2 ! wow you seem to know more about this than his father and friends , Alonso afraid of Heiki's pace , LOL Heiki is 10 times slower than hammy ....and not in the same league at best he is a number 2 , to the other top drivers ...

Piquet JR is one of Alonso friends , he is better than heiki , as good as rosberg , both of which is a couple notches down on hammy . Heiki would have made a good number 2 , the choice to move piquet Jr up was more based on the fact he was bringing a lot of sponsor money to the table thru his father. If not Heiki would have remained at renault to carry Alonso jock strap to the track on race weekends ...

Speaking of Pussies, now if that FInnish ***** need's massa's no 2 status to barely get another F1 WDC you will have to drink a full shot of 150 proof to make up for it .....

Olli Snellman

this it getting interesting

With Piquet & Alonso Renault would be a totally "latin" team. Nice to see how this kettle will poil up. Heikki would cool thinks out a pit. Well, when you say Heikki is 10 times slower than Hamilton; comparing to what? I suppose last season Renualt was not even closo to Big Mac. I don't think Hamilton is that much faster with equal cars. But what would be interesting; let's but these two guys driving for example equal rally cars for example on ice or gravel and see which one is 100 times slower

ltc

Why does this thread (which I admit is one of my Rennlist favorites) remind me of this classic SNL

(ignore the first 10 seconds of commercial)
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=22112906

A.Wayne

Olli ,
On gravel it would be reversed with Hammy being 10 times slower than Heiki .
Piquet Jr brought a lot of cash to the table , Renault is making a big push for next year and need the budget , there contract with alonso is heavily performance orientated , if they produce nothing he goes to ferrari in 09.

Heiki has been a Renault sponsored driver for the last 4 years , he would have stayed if not for the budget concerns and yes in my estimation based on past results he is not in the same league as Hamilton ....

Flying Finn

Again, you avoid a question and just ramble some of your fantasy nonsense, but let me repeat: how did they (Piguet Jr. & Heikki) compare when they both drove in GP2?

Piguet is better than Kovalainen? As good as Rosberg? Based on what?
Because he says so (everyone knows he thinks he is the best there ever was...)? Because Kovalainen & Rosberg both handidnly beat him in GP2?
I agree, Piguet brings money & his famous name but to say he is better than Kovalainen & as good as Rosberg, pleeeeaaaasseee.
If he was so much better, he didn't have to bring all that money to replace Kovalainen. Doh!

Of course I don't "seem to know more than Piguet" but I sure seem to know more than you. (Kimi beat Massa, Kovalainen doesn't leave F1, Alonso back to Renault etc. etc.)

Hammy 10 times better? Like in 2006 when McLaren wanted to bring him up to drive with Kimi (when Montoya left) but they couldn't because he was much slower than DeLa Rosa?

I know you try to praise Hamilton since he as a rookie did better than you pop idol Alonso but come on.

OK, even though I didn't want to reply to your stupid ***** comment regarding Kimi, I'm too curious. How is Kimi a *****? because he doesn't give a ****? Because he drives and shuts up? Because he wines, not whines?

Man, I could've kept this short and just say: "put down the pipe".

A.Wayne

Finn,
My point exactly they both have similar records coming into f1 , so to believe that piquet would be slower than heiki , you have no basis for that , my point is that piquet should prove to be just as fast and as competitive as Heiki. Not sure what point you are arguing about ...here.
Finn if you are boasting about your knowledge on F1 because you where able to pick Kimi , that is very laughable , you where a Monkey's **** right down to the last 10 laps at interlagos , your pick of the Finn was due to the fact that he is a Finn nothing else and in retrospect Kimi did not win a WDC, Hammy lost one making Kimi WDC, I'm sure you are Happy for Kimi , as I, but to lay claim to being brilliant that you picked him when he barely won and not until he was fully supported by his team is , well , Ahhhh

Next year Kimi will have to prove himself as a true WDC and try and win on merit and not on handouts ......you do see fantasy, as to him being faster than Massa . not so my friend , the records and replays does'nt support your claims . next year we will see if Kimi is the "real Deal" I do believe he is in the best position to , but time will tell....Ahhhh the mighty no 1 contract , they all covet

Flying Finn

You said Piguet Jr is better than Heikki. (see below)
I said he isn't and when they reaced together in same series, both Kovalainen and Rosberg beat him. No?

Who said anything about picking Kimi to win WDC? It was Kimi beating Massa, Kovalainen staying, Alonso going back to Renault (again, see below since you seem to be more "off" than normally...).
I'd suggest you actually read when people write and then reply to those, and also lay off that pipe, it's not good for you.

Besides, don't give any of that "barely won" bull****, your boy Alonso barely won too and always was clear #1 in his team (contrary to Kimi who was equal with Massa and only got support after Massa lost his chances), yet you always clain how great double champion he is.
Same thing with Massa being faster, records show it... Please man, lay that pipe down already!

BTW, Kovalainen already has a contract for next year.