Where are all the Alonso detractors
12-13-2007, 11:38 AM
#1156
Formula One Spin Doctor
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I agree, we are saying the same thing.
Same way we changed the bet during the middle season..?
I think your memory is failing a little again, I never said Alonso was not any good.
05 McLaren maybe was faster but it was not reliable enough, in other words, not the best. Renault was.
In 06, I think Ferrari wasn't faster, you think it was but all this is just "he said, she said" so what's the point?
BTW, Renault in both of those years won the manufacturer's championship, that's usually pretty good indication.
Same way we changed the bet during the middle season..?
I think your memory is failing a little again, I never said Alonso was not any good.
05 McLaren maybe was faster but it was not reliable enough, in other words, not the best. Renault was.
In 06, I think Ferrari wasn't faster, you think it was but all this is just "he said, she said" so what's the point?
BTW, Renault in both of those years won the manufacturer's championship, that's usually pretty good indication.
Now we're talking in circles. To win a WDC, you have to have a front running car, be very quick, not make mistakes, and have a fair amount of luck. The proportions to which each champion had these componants varies from year to year, but make no mistake, each WDC had all of them.
Agree ...
12-13-2007, 11:40 AM
#1157
King of Cool
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12-13-2007, 11:41 AM
#1158
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Now we're talking in circles. To win a WDC, you have to have a front running car, be very quick, not make mistakes, and have a fair amount of luck. The proportions to which each champion had these componants varies from year to year, but make no mistake, each WDC had all of them.
12-13-2007, 11:50 AM
#1159
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Don't be obtuse Wayne, obviously there current car stinks.As i said before , in both years both the Ferrari and the Mclaren where as good as the renaults , the renaults where not the best car on the track in both 05 and 06, the mclaren was the faster car and should have won in 05 , the ferrari was the better car after mid season and should have won in 06 , ALONSO did well to win a WDC in both 05 and 06 as he did not have the best car on the circuit ...
12-13-2007, 12:15 PM
#1160
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And that logic should apply to Schumacher as well?
Last edited by mitch236; 12-13-2007 at 01:23 PM.
12-13-2007, 12:57 PM
#1161
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Mitch, never denied MS his place , just stated he was not my choice of greatest .......and never will, i keep in check those that will gloss over the under handed facts of his career ......
12-13-2007, 06:02 PM
#1162
Ironman 140.6
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- '05 Big advantage Renault
In '06 Ferrari narrowed the gap with Renault (and Bridgestone narrowed with Michelin), but Renault was still faster.
- '06 advantage Renault
I'm sure you'd love to say, "look how Alo beat Shumi w/equal cars". However, a more accurate statement would by "why did Alonso lose 7 races to Shumi when he had a faster car?".
12-13-2007, 06:16 PM
#1163
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It pains me to no end why you have the hat of every WDC, but not my beloved Michael. It doesn't make any sense. You don't deny his place, you don't think he's the greatest, but say he is top 5 all time, don't agree with his tactics on track, but absolutely love his off track actions. Where is this hate coming from? Doesn't make any sense, does it,... when hate over comes logic. Where is the love?
12-13-2007, 08:04 PM
#1165
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In '05 Mac had the best (absolute) pace, however their reliablity was horrible. Renault's pace was just slightly off Mac, but the car was very reliable. Ferrari had a much slower car with ****ty tires (bridgestone)
- '05 Big advantage Renault
In '06 Ferrari narrowed the gap with Renault (and Bridgestone narrowed with Michelin), but Renault was still faster.
- '06 advantage Renault
I'm sure you'd love to say, "look how Alo beat Shumi w/equal cars". However, a more accurate statement would by "why did Alonso lose 7 races to Shumi when he had a faster car?".
- '05 Big advantage Renault
In '06 Ferrari narrowed the gap with Renault (and Bridgestone narrowed with Michelin), but Renault was still faster.
- '06 advantage Renault
I'm sure you'd love to say, "look how Alo beat Shumi w/equal cars". However, a more accurate statement would by "why did Alonso lose 7 races to Shumi when he had a faster car?".
their 06 car .
12-14-2007, 04:33 AM
#1166
To go back to Ollies, point, just this year it was estimated that it took $10m budget to go from karts to F1 test drive. And even with that, there is no guarantee.
God knows I'm no defender of NASCAR as it has it's own problems, but if you look at 1/2 the F1 grid, it's all about how much money you can bring to the table. Pinquet Jr. vs. Heikki in the Renault seat is one example.
God knows I'm no defender of NASCAR as it has it's own problems, but if you look at 1/2 the F1 grid, it's all about how much money you can bring to the table. Pinquet Jr. vs. Heikki in the Renault seat is one example.
What comes to Heikki. He comes from northern Finland from the part of our country where are not that much inhabitants at all, his hometown has about 10000 inhabitants. That part of Finland is mainly forest, lakes etc. http://www.suomussalmi.fi/Resource.p...lish/index.htx I suppose you can compare it to Montana, Idaho etc. in the USA. That part of Finland is poor what comes to economics, most unemploeyed are located there, because there are hardly any big companies located there. Also if think it more closely, there are only little bit over 5 million inhabitants in Finland so it's a true wonder we even had F1 drivers at all. This kind of population is not that interesting if you think for example our market volume. For big car manufacturers the Finnish market is not so attractive if only about 100 000-150 000 new cars are sold on yearly basis. F1 teams owned by car factories prefer drivers who comes from the countries where markets are. So most of the Finns (perhaps all) have had their F1 seats because of their driving skills, not because of big money or because of that their father used to be a F1 champ or both of these factors; like Piquet etc. Well, Rosberg is a ½ Finn, but he drives now under German licence mainly because of big money. It's easier to get good sponsorship with German passport than with the Finnish one. Rosberg drove GP2 under Finnish licensce, but Keke changed plans right away when he managed to get his son to F1.
12-14-2007, 09:15 AM
#1167
King of Cool
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You are absolutely correct. If You guys just know where Kimi and Heikki are coming from. For example Kimi's parents are something else than rich. His father used to have 2-3 jobs at the same time to ensure his son a possibility to drive karting. When Kimi started to race outside Finland they didn't have even money for food at the end of these journeys. The only think which kept them going was Shell credit card, so they were able to buy gas for their old van and some food from Shell gas stanions. Kimi's parents are still very modest folks and even they do have money now, they do not live with luxury, it's just not their style.
What comes to Heikki. He comes from northern Finland from the part of our country where are not that much inhabitants at all, his hometown has about 10000 inhabitants. That part of Finland is mainly forest, lakes etc. http://www.suomussalmi.fi/Resource.p...lish/index.htx I suppose you can compare it to Montana, Idaho etc. in the USA. That part of Finland is poor what comes to economics, most unemploeyed are located there, because there are hardly any big companies located there. Also if think it more closely, there are only little bit over 5 million inhabitants in Finland so it's a true wonder we even had F1 drivers at all. This kind of population is not that interesting if you think for example our market volume. For big car manufacturers the Finnish market is not so attractive if only about 100 000-150 000 new cars are sold on yearly basis. F1 teams owned by car factories prefer drivers who comes from the countries where markets are. So most of the Finns (perhaps all) have had their F1 seats because of their driving skills, not because of big money or because of that their father used to be a F1 champ or both of these factors; like Piquet etc. Well, Rosberg is a ½ Finn, but he drives now under German licence mainly because of big money. It's easier to get good sponsorship with German passport than with the Finnish one. Rosberg drove GP2 under Finnish licensce, but Keke changed plans right away when he managed to get his son to F1.
What comes to Heikki. He comes from northern Finland from the part of our country where are not that much inhabitants at all, his hometown has about 10000 inhabitants. That part of Finland is mainly forest, lakes etc. http://www.suomussalmi.fi/Resource.p...lish/index.htx I suppose you can compare it to Montana, Idaho etc. in the USA. That part of Finland is poor what comes to economics, most unemploeyed are located there, because there are hardly any big companies located there. Also if think it more closely, there are only little bit over 5 million inhabitants in Finland so it's a true wonder we even had F1 drivers at all. This kind of population is not that interesting if you think for example our market volume. For big car manufacturers the Finnish market is not so attractive if only about 100 000-150 000 new cars are sold on yearly basis. F1 teams owned by car factories prefer drivers who comes from the countries where markets are. So most of the Finns (perhaps all) have had their F1 seats because of their driving skills, not because of big money or because of that their father used to be a F1 champ or both of these factors; like Piquet etc. Well, Rosberg is a ½ Finn, but he drives now under German licence mainly because of big money. It's easier to get good sponsorship with German passport than with the Finnish one. Rosberg drove GP2 under Finnish licensce, but Keke changed plans right away when he managed to get his son to F1.
Oh, and to my surprice, Flavor Flav and Ron have managed to behave, Kovalainen is a McLaren guy now!
12-14-2007, 10:52 AM
#1169
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From Planet F1
'Kovalainen dropped because he was too fast'
Wednesday 12th December 2007
Heikki Kovalainen was reportedly jettisoned by Renault in favour of Nelson Piquet junior because Fernando Alonso was wary of the Finn's pace.
While confirmation of Alonso's return to Renault this week was not a surprise, the ousting of Kovalainen was unexpected. The youngster excelled during the second half of his debut season, comfortably eclipsing the lacklustre Giancarlo Fisichella.
Pointedly, team boss Flavio Briatore was unable to provide a satisfactory explanation for Kovalainen's dismissal in his farewell to both drivers, instead praising the Finn as "a fast, intelligent and engaging driver, who is definitely capable of winning races in the future."
That capability may have proved his undoing, however, with Autosport disclosing:
'It is understood that his speed ultimately cost him the chance of staying on board at Renault, because the returning Fernando Alonso did not want a team-mate to pose the kind of challenge that he faced with Lewis Hamilton at McLaren this year.'
Hamilton, by contrast, is reported to be pressing McLaren to appoint Kovalainen as his team-mate next season rather than the undistinguished Pedro de la Rosa. Rather than be cautious of being paired with a fast team-mate, Hamilton evidently believes that such a challenge will bring out the best of his own talents - as Alonso found out to his cost last season.
Toyota are also believed to have made a bid for Kovalainen's services. Remarking to Finnish television that his ousting at Renault was "something we could expect", the driver confirmed: "Luckily there are two other options with interesting offers."
'Kovalainen dropped because he was too fast'
Wednesday 12th December 2007
Heikki Kovalainen was reportedly jettisoned by Renault in favour of Nelson Piquet junior because Fernando Alonso was wary of the Finn's pace.
While confirmation of Alonso's return to Renault this week was not a surprise, the ousting of Kovalainen was unexpected. The youngster excelled during the second half of his debut season, comfortably eclipsing the lacklustre Giancarlo Fisichella.
Pointedly, team boss Flavio Briatore was unable to provide a satisfactory explanation for Kovalainen's dismissal in his farewell to both drivers, instead praising the Finn as "a fast, intelligent and engaging driver, who is definitely capable of winning races in the future."
That capability may have proved his undoing, however, with Autosport disclosing:
'It is understood that his speed ultimately cost him the chance of staying on board at Renault, because the returning Fernando Alonso did not want a team-mate to pose the kind of challenge that he faced with Lewis Hamilton at McLaren this year.'
Hamilton, by contrast, is reported to be pressing McLaren to appoint Kovalainen as his team-mate next season rather than the undistinguished Pedro de la Rosa. Rather than be cautious of being paired with a fast team-mate, Hamilton evidently believes that such a challenge will bring out the best of his own talents - as Alonso found out to his cost last season.
Toyota are also believed to have made a bid for Kovalainen's services. Remarking to Finnish television that his ousting at Renault was "something we could expect", the driver confirmed: "Luckily there are two other options with interesting offers."
12-14-2007, 11:01 AM
#1170
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You are absolutely correct. If You guys just know where Kimi and Heikki are coming from. For example Kimi's parents are something else than rich. His father used to have 2-3 jobs at the same time to ensure his son a possibility to drive karting. When Kimi started to race outside Finland they didn't have even money for food at the end of these journeys. The only think which kept them going was Shell credit card, so they were able to buy gas for their old van and some food from Shell gas stanions. Kimi's parents are still very modest folks and even they do have money now, they do not live with luxury, it's just not their style.
What comes to Heikki. He comes from northern Finland from the part of our country where are not that much inhabitants at all, his hometown has about 10000 inhabitants. That part of Finland is mainly forest, lakes etc. http://www.suomussalmi.fi/Resource.p...lish/index.htx I suppose you can compare it to Montana, Idaho etc. in the USA. That part of Finland is poor what comes to economics, most unemploeyed are located there, because there are hardly any big companies located there. Also if think it more closely, there are only little bit over 5 million inhabitants in Finland so it's a true wonder we even had F1 drivers at all. This kind of population is not that interesting if you think for example our market volume. For big car manufacturers the Finnish market is not so attractive if only about 100 000-150 000 new cars are sold on yearly basis. F1 teams owned by car factories prefer drivers who comes from the countries where markets are. So most of the Finns (perhaps all) have had their F1 seats because of their driving skills, not because of big money or because of that their father used to be a F1 champ or both of these factors; like Piquet etc. Well, Rosberg is a ½ Finn, but he drives now under German licence mainly because of big money. It's easier to get good sponsorship with German passport than with the Finnish one. Rosberg drove GP2 under Finnish licensce, but Keke changed plans right away when he managed to get his son to F1.
What comes to Heikki. He comes from northern Finland from the part of our country where are not that much inhabitants at all, his hometown has about 10000 inhabitants. That part of Finland is mainly forest, lakes etc. http://www.suomussalmi.fi/Resource.p...lish/index.htx I suppose you can compare it to Montana, Idaho etc. in the USA. That part of Finland is poor what comes to economics, most unemploeyed are located there, because there are hardly any big companies located there. Also if think it more closely, there are only little bit over 5 million inhabitants in Finland so it's a true wonder we even had F1 drivers at all. This kind of population is not that interesting if you think for example our market volume. For big car manufacturers the Finnish market is not so attractive if only about 100 000-150 000 new cars are sold on yearly basis. F1 teams owned by car factories prefer drivers who comes from the countries where markets are. So most of the Finns (perhaps all) have had their F1 seats because of their driving skills, not because of big money or because of that their father used to be a F1 champ or both of these factors; like Piquet etc. Well, Rosberg is a ½ Finn, but he drives now under German licence mainly because of big money. It's easier to get good sponsorship with German passport than with the Finnish one. Rosberg drove GP2 under Finnish licensce, but Keke changed plans right away when he managed to get his son to F1.