Larry Herman

All of this bickering is interesting but remember that what is opinioned on pit lane, or even by "top" F1 writers is strictly that, opinion. It wasn't too long ago that Fisichella was rumored to be the best driver, even by his peers. Look what happened when he finally got a top drive, nothing. Stay with the facts.

fuenfer

This has to be the longest thread on Rennlist.

mdrums

...bought a Kimi hat (all white Fin Flag all trimed in blue) in the Ferrari section at the Puma store in the mall last night...I though of you A. Wayne!

ltc

Nope, not even close.

A.Wayne

Too much Caffine there buddy , whats with the anger
Finn, I said that after posting the comparsion , after which i stated they are entering F1 with pretty equal experiences and results, i believe piquet Jr to be better, you believe Heiki to be better , i don't believe it is a step down for renault to try piquet Jr.nor any easier for Alonso.
We also started the year with you picking Kimi to win the WDC, to keep our wager going it was later changed to Massa because they where so far behind, no! ....

My point is that Heiki is a Renault factory driver he has been for over 4 years , he was let go by renault , i said he was going to be let go by Renault 7 months ago , He has . You are taking this off course , the discussion is about Heiki leaving Renault and being replaced by Piquet because he ( heiki )
is faster and more of threat , He is not , they both came into F1 with Similar records with heiki having it easier with Fisi as his teammate .

FInn again Kimi became WDC , next year he will have to prove himself and take control , he has to win on merit Alonso was never gifted a WDC the way Kimi has and i'm not saying this to take anything from Kimi , but after winning 2 , you still will not give Alonso any credit , i wonder what you would have said if he was gifted one the way Kimi was ....Hmmm,
My point you cannot expect acceptance of Kimi's unless you yourself are willing to accept those of Alonso as a 2 wdc.... Next year if Kimi wins another WDC , he will be a 2 WDC , guess who is the other .....a little hint , he did it in a **** box renault , not while driving the best car on the track ...

Veloce Raptor

Renault is ****ed, with or without The Whiner.

A.Wayne

I already have one , i have many WDC hats all except schumachers .......

A.Wayne

Again ,
Comparison between Piquet Jr and Heiki , a lot of talk has been made about these 2 drivers , with piquet winning out as teammate , because he is supposedly less of a "threat ", Leading up to F1 both drivers had similar results both finished 2nd to Rosberg ( Heiki ) and Hamilton ( piquet) in GP2.

Piquet JR

In 2003, Piquet moved to the UK where he joined the British Formula 3 Championship and formed the Piquet Sports team. He went on to win 3rd place with six wins, five podiums and eight pole positions.

In 2004, Piquet won the British Championship. He became the youngest driver to have ever won the championship at 19 years and 2 months. He also went to test for BMW Williams now Williams F1.

In 2005, Piquet took part in the A1 Grand Prix for A1 Team Brazil. In the first event in the series, he took first place in both Sprint and Main race events, as well as scoring a point for the fastest lap. He also became a driver for HiTech/Piquet Sports in the GP2 Series. He also was also testing for BAR-Honda.

In 2006, Piquet gained second place in the championship to British driver Lewis Hamilton in his second year of GP2.

During the 2007 season he was a test driver for the Renault Formula One team.[2]

He has been promoted to the race team for the 2008 season, which will see him driving alongside Fernando Alonso who returns to the Renault Formula One team.


Kovalainen

Heiki began his car racing career in the British Formula Renault championship, which fellow Finn Kimi Räikkönen had won the previous year before moving straight into Formula 1 with Sauber. Kovalainen's apprenticeship in the junior categories of motor sport was more conventional, but was remarkable in that he used Renault power at every step along the way.[1]
He finished fourth in the championship with two wins, two pole positions and three fastest laps, and earned the Rookie of the Year award.
Formula 3
Kovalainen attracted the support of the Renault Driver Development programme and in 2002 moved up to the British F3 series with Fortec, who used Renault engines. He became one of the most competitive drivers on the grid by the second half of the season and all five of his wins came in the final nine races. With three pole positions, three fastest laps and third overall in the championship behind Robbie Kerr and James Courtney[1] he was again Rookie of the Year.
He also demonstrated strong form in the international F3 rounds, with second place at the Macau Grand Prix and fourth place at the Zandvoort Marlboro Masters.
World Series by Nissan
Kovalainen moved into the Renault-owned World Series by Nissan in 2003 - but faced a tough team mate at the Gabord team in Franck Montagny. Montagny had already spent two seasons in the World Series by Nissan and won the title in 2001.[1] Montagny won the title with nine wins to Kovalainen's one.
The Finn stayed in World Series by Nissan for 2004 but moved to the Pons team and won the championship ahead of Tiago Monteiro, with 192 points and six wins.[1]
In 2005, Kovalainen entered the GP2 Series, the new 'feeder' series for F1 and the successor to Formula 3000. Kovalainen won the first ever round of the new championship and led the championship with the Arden International team.[1] But in the final four rounds a resurgent Nico Rosberg took over the lead of the championship and Kovalainen finished second, 15 points adrift.


Based on their pre f1 history , Piquet Jr and Heiki are pretty even with JR winning a championship in the much more prestigious and difficult British F3 , over heiki Nissan championship . There is no justification to believe that Piquet will be any easier a teammate than Heiki and non to believe that Alonso had anything to do with this , let the games begin.....

mdrums

So...who do you think will benefit from no tracton control and who will not drive as well in 2008?

Flying Finn

Yes Wayne, no!

Below are couple of quotes after Australia's GP, first day (before the quali, on Friday) when the bet was made:

The rest re: Kovalainen, Piguet, Alonso & Kimi are more the same and as good analysis as your memory so there's no point to comment.

Can you please put the pipe down?

Larry Herman

I guess that it depends on the way you look at it. Kimi was "gifted" the 2007 WDC due to Hamilton's screwups and Alonso's lack of speed just as much as Alonso was gifted the 2006 WDC due to Ferrari's lack of reliability.

Of course, you could look at it as they were both in a position to win due to their talent, hard work and refusal to give up.

A.Wayne

Larry agree,
i was trying to make the same point to the finn, that you cannot undermine Alonso WDC , when Kimi 's was also gifted. Kimi will have to win in 09 on his own merit, as it is i"m still going into 09 with the same opinion of the top 4 drivers , with Alonso still being the most complete driver of the top 4 , Maybe next year , after finally winning a WDC , Kimi will be able to change that.

FInn

Olli Snellman

I still wonder if we finns are such a poor drivers why we have 2 ½ F1 drivers.... You americans should be more international and skip Nascar, which does not interest nobody outside the USA.

Ray S

Alonso got total "gifts" with his 2 WDC. He (Alo) won them in absolutely dominant cars.

Kimi's '07 car was far from dominant.

A.Wayne

LOL, Ollie , you finns do alright in producing top drivers be it F1 or international rally ...........Nascar is here to stay ....

I guess you picked up my pipe
the Renault the best car on the track