needmoregarage

Porsche includes a tow hook. Not all manufacturers include it.

KONG991TT

So, I LITERALLY was the first person on scene during the initial impact. I was paddocked right next to the air station and was trying to get the Y-Pipe back on the throttle body (hose popped off under boost) when I heard the tires screaming out of big bend. I looked up and saw the action thinking, "oh man, that's going to end badly" and started running towards the wall as I knew an impact was imminent. I saw the car (Driver Front) hit before the car rotated around and the rear passenger made the second impact. With smoke from the tires, airbags and the brakes, I was concerned about fire but all was good and both occupants got out and over the wall.

This brings a few other thoughts to mind:
I was instructing on Shenandoah during a private track day 2 weeks ago and have been considering getting on a a more formal track to become an instructor with PCA with a focus on helping to give back to what my local chapter gave to me (especially since there's an instructor shortage). Much of what has been said about how rewarding it is resonates with me for sure. What does cross my mind is how big of a brick I would s**t if I was assigned some young kid showing up in a 991 Turbo (which is exactly what I did - god bless my instructors!). I started in the early 2000's with a car that made a whopping 195 horsepower, getting back on the saddle of War Admiral now in a modern 500+hp 911 is a completely different game so the point about how cars now come with obnoxious amounts of horsepower ALSO resonates with me...

Having driven with all sorts of clubs over the last year (I logged 35 track days last year alone and I've already done 10 YTD with another 30 on the docket), I've come to appreciate the willingness of instructors to share the sweet science but also the risk that they take because you simply never know what kind of loose nut needs to be tightened behind the wheel. Certainly there's much to think about but all in all, the most important thing is that both driver and instructor were both okay and if a car needing to be replaced or simply written off was the extent of the damage, a dent in the pocket book and ego surely is much better than what could have been.

I hope incidents like this don't deter folks from instructing but rather encourage us all to place a larger precedence on safety where students learn something, have some fun and make it home safely to drive another day.
Just my .2 cents here!

RobertR1

Thats a good way of doing it. The group forcing mandatory signs off should pair up with a shop or two and have a fixed fee format.

I went to one ‘budget’ day when starting out and it was a mess with too many cars and too many mechanical issues.

Outside of that, I always found people to show up with well maintained cars. No one wants to put all the effort in to have their day shortened. Everyone is there to maximize track time.

ProCoach

Agreed. Incidents like this are just another factor in the risk/benefit analysis every sensible instructor makes before getting into the passenger seat of a car. Certainly, lessons can be learned…

Time and time again, the satisfaction from helping a student have the lightbulb go on brings people back to “give back.” Been going on for decades and hopefully will continue for some time.

I really enjoyed @dgrobs post after completing Niagara’s instructor training and, with the best practices in place, helped his first student exceed their own expectations, in a safe, incremental way. Awesome!

dgrobs

FYI, I am still in training with Niagara. The official "badge" comes in a couple months with them (I hope). They have an awesome way of vetting/training instructors for their events. Don't know too many groups that treat their DE's as actual "schools", from Green to Instructor as Niagara does.

At one of my first Niagara events some years back, I was coming into staging at The Glen (black run group), and right before I pitted out, an instructor jumped into my right seat, harnessed up, and said "ok, let's go". I had no idea this was gonna happen and it really took me by surprise. Was a great session and I even got some pointers along the way. At the time, I couldn't figure out why they threw and instructor in with me last minute in the Black Run Group. Today, I understand (and agree with) it 100%.

Point being, even in their advanced run groups. Niagara wants to make sure you are driving with your head and not above it. Safety first. Not many groups do this sort of thing, but I truly believe it makes the events much much safer.

177mph

NNJR-PCA does this as well. It's called "the blitz". Always a surprise but it helps.

dgrobs

Yes, The White Blitz. I think it was one the FCooler guys that jumped in with me when I was in White. Very good thing to do.

mgordon18

+1 to Niagara's "driving school." I was at their most recent WGI event in their black group. It was the first time I've run with them in a standard DE format, as opposed to their awesome advanced-only events (30 min on/ 30 min off, repeat!). In standard DEs, Niagara runs 2 classes per group per day and runs on-track exercises to help people better understand car dynamics and on-track safety.

The first exercise was to run the first 2 laps trying not to use the brakes. That is, find a pace where you don't NEED to use your brakes at any time around the track. This was pretty interesting. It makes you think WAY ahead - two and three corners out - to make sure you're not going to blow a corner further on. It also showed how much speed is bled just by turning into a corner, which was cool to see. I must admit, I had to hit the brakes a few times.

The second exercise was a bit less interesting and more nerve-wracking. They asked us to drive the first 3 laps of the 2nd day's first session in sets of 3, THREE-WIDE around the whole track - each person taking a turn in each position (inside, middle, outside), as fast as we dared go. This one seemed less useful to me. We were so concerned about keeping away from each other that we didn't really get any speed going and we just plodded around the track 3 times, each person sticking as close as possible to their edge of the track and the middle car trying to stay on the seam that runs all the way around the middle of WGI. Not much was learned with this one, I think. 3-wide through the bus stop? No thank you.

But the point is, it's good to see a region take safety and learning so seriously. Each day's second classroom session was a debrief of the exercise, tips and tricks, as well as asking the group for more exercise ideas.

Niagara also takes its group assignments very seriously. They noticed this was my first time in one of their standard DEs (not sure if they realized I'd driven with them in advanced WGI events before) and put an instructor in the car with me for a session to make sure I was good to go for the black group. Totally fine with me - I took advantage of the opportunity and asked for help on T1, T8, and T9. I ended up dropping 2 seconds off my best previous time.

dgrobs

The 3 wide exercise always freaks me out, especially when I'm the one in the middle.

That said, this exercise is to build trust and build your situational awareness.
Not only do you need to know where the car on your left is, but at the same time, the car on the right as well. 3 wide through the bus stop will increase anyone's awareness. Same with 2, 3 and 4 when going 3 wide.
Lots going on during that exercise, and I can guarantee that you came out of those 3 laps with more situational awareness than when you went in. You also came out if it with a lot more pickup on your tires...lol.

I was pretty impressed with your driving during those black sessions. Lots of improvement over the last time I was on track with you.
Keep it up.
You are rockin and rolling out there.
Now you need to figure out being WOT up the esses...lol. (I still lift at the crown from time to time. Settles everything down).

Nice work on your part...

mgordon18

Thanks, Bruce. Much appreciated! I think the acquisition of the GT4 helped a bit, too.

I am, admittedly, a bit timid up the esses. I was at an event a few years ago where a GT4 went off at the top for unknown reasons. Bruce was there, actually, right behind that car. Car was totaled, of course. They brought the driver to the hospital and that was the last I'd heard about it until last week, when I heard the driver was attending the event, so that's good, at least.

But either way, every time I go into turn 2 with my foot on the floor, I think of that crash and I ease up a touch. Something to work on, I guess.

dgrobs

Yes, she came right back to the track, same as I did after my mess at The Glen last season. Had no choice. It was either come right back or be done for good. We both made the same choice. The right choice.
I also still see that wreck as I climb the esses. The mind plays tricks, but I truly believe it is our sense of self-preservation kicking in. Not a bad thing.

TXE36

Yep.

I had a bad off at TWS going CCW between T7 and T8 due to oil or coolant on the track. Went off on the inside at 90 MPH+, nearly hit a friend, flew over a ravine and nearly hit the T8 flag station. Ended up parking it in between a flagger's truck and the flag station - Juan Montoya style (it was the same year he hit the jet dryer). Could have easily totaled the car - some skill and lots of luck kept the bill under $500. The landing after the ravine was hard enough to pop the mirror glass out of the passenger side without breaking anything - the mirror defogger wires kept the mirror attached to the car.

It took a year before I could firmly plant the gas coming out of T7 again. My brain just would not do it, even though it had before the incident. I finally resorted to using my right hand to push down on my right knee to get my foot to comply.

LuigiVampa

The biggest problem is the attitude most people have toward safety.

People will spend a large amount of money to buy their car but not invest in proper safety gear. Worse, you have people show up at the track wearing $500 worth of "Porsche gear" (shirt, hat and jacket) but they will refuse to spend an equal amount on a HANS device (or a little more on a Simpson hybrid device).

dgrobs

Just so you know (and to keep this thread Rennlist related), before I spent all my disposable income on hookers and blow, I invested in a roll cage, Recaro's, a Hans, and 6 pt. harnesses. Just so you know................

ProCoach

I was speaking with a few folks at Chin earlier this week, and the Glen Esses, like the Uphill at VIR, can actually be more treacherous by sudden, regressive changes in throttle application (typically when turning left through 3 at the Glen), rather than staying flat or just a confidence breathe (partial, gradual and incremental lift) before the direction change.

Keeping the car thrust positive is key to a stable platform. While it's counterintuitive to stay more into the throttle, it can actually help keep the car more stable in elevation and camber changes during tricky direction changes.

Love the GT4!