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I stopped in-car instructing because I realized we weren't having as much fun on the weekend as we used to because we were so busy. With an older slightly modified car there always seems to be something that needs to be done. With both Nadine and I driving, and instructing, there was never time to put gas in, fix the clutch cable, fix the throttle cable, bleed brakes, tighten this, replace that, diagnose something else... so we ended up not driving much because we were fixing when we should be on track. And...we were always exhausted.
We both gave back plenty to PCA so I have no regrets. We never did it for the free ride (though that was nice), we were proud to be instructors and took great satisfaction helping newbies get addicted to this sport. But especially now with this seemingly 24/7/365 business, I want a little R&R at the track....
And coaching through data and video which we do now is a lot less stressful!
I stopped in-car instructing because I realized we weren't having as much fun on the weekend as we used to because we were so busy.
And coaching through data and video which we do now is a lot less stressful!
You both have given a lot back to the sport, for sure.
Coaching for me is always a total commitment, so for me it’s even more energy sapping than in-csr. But that’s just the way I roll.
While you do not have the effort of buckling in the car, the conversations that arise from detail shown in rhe data and video can consume more than rhe whole day.
The great thing is that with data and video coaching, I have the TOTAL attention of the driver, so it’s actually even MORE effective than being in car. At least, for the advanced Solo, instructors and Club racers that I work with.
At the end of the eight (or ten or twelve with travel) hour day, I’ll sleep as well as my client!
Days like yesterday, working with an accomplished DE driver ready to go Club racing (even though we never had time to even talk about the art and craft of racing), and having the light bulb come on watching him chop TWO SECONDS off his previous PB, makes it all worthwhile.
__________________ -Peter Krause www.peterkrause.net www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
You guys are ruining my high of driving at Daytona last month. Although I have a GT3 with only a GMG harness bar. I pushed 170 on track. Accidents Are just something I don’t dwell on.
Since I’m not an instructor I know I don’t have your perspective, but correct me if I’m wrong the percentage of deaths on the street has got to be higher than HPDE.
On a side note at the Daytona NASA event I was at I advanced to group 3. In the new class I was in there was a 14 or 15 year old who got checked off to the group. Not that familiar with it, I think he was going to be competing in some Miata series. It’s always nice for me to see people on the track instead of acting out on the road. I thank you all for your service.
Since I’m not an instructor I know I don’t have your perspective, but correct me if I’m wrong the percentage of deaths on the street has got to be higher than HPDE.
That's not really the point though. I am a long-time instructor, and at least for now am planning to continue instructing. There is risk driving on track of course, exacerbated by not being the one driving. Instructors need to be in control of the situation, yes - but you're still not controlling the car. Instructing is a calculated risk. But let's not be obtuse and pretend there isn't some risk.
Last edited by stownsen914; 06-19-2021 at 10:21 AM.
You guys are ruining my high of driving at Daytona last month. Although I have a GT3 with only a GMG harness bar. I pushed 170 on track. Accidents Are just something I don’t dwell on
I say this with kindness, not criticism..... A harness bar is fine for low speed autocrosses, but one of the worst things you can have in your car at speed, and you are hitting very high speeds. Should the car go upside down, in street belts (3 point) you have a chance of survival on a roof crush as you will slide out the side and go upside down in the passenger footwell. The Harness bar (with harnesses) keeps you locked in the seat and that in turn means the roof comes down around your head. In a pancake roof event your chance of dying is pretty high.
This is really a slippery slope, and I am not out to scare anyone or say you have to do this, but if you are driving your car like its a race car, you may want to consider installing proper race car equipment so if you do have an incident, you have a much better chance of survival. That includes a full roll bar at a minimum (cage is preferred), a 1-piece shell seat that won't break in half like the adjustable seats (and break your neck/back if you slide backwards into the Armco), True 6 point harnesses that bolt to the floor, and a HANS device.
The choice is yours, really - just trying to make you aware of some things - we all want you to stay safe and have fun.
Glad you joined us at RA on 6/7 weekend! We had a great weekend and the committee was pretty pleased to see many people packing it in early for the same fatigue reasons.
At another event in my SCCA race in 7/2020, I put two wheels off under S/F. Oops. Brain: “go, go, straight, it’s just a wide patch of grass.” Went straight, squeeeeeezed the brake, then harder, turned backwards and came to a controlled stop. Never touched a thing. Had a lot to vacuum out, but nothing to fix.
I’ve several at Roebling, not just stay off at T9 and it isn’t pretty. The wall yells back, loudly.
Re: harness bars, I always used to know them as a simple horizontal bar that is mounted between the two pillars behind the seats, to route harnesses. In recent years I've noticed that some vendors market lighter duty rollbars as "harness bars." Not sure if which type the posts above are referring to.
Re: harness bars, I always used to know them as a simple horizontal bar that is mounted between the two pillars behind the seats, to route harnesses. In recent years I've noticed that some vendors market lighter duty rollbars as "harness bars." Not sure if which type the posts above are referring to.
I've posted about this before but there's a reason why GMG and all the other vendors refer to those as harness bars and not roll bars. It's because they're the former and not the latter. You can postulate all you want about how much safer they are but really all they are is really heavy, complicated to install harness bars since they use the front (and sometimes rear) seat belt mounting bolts (in shear) to mount to the car...
Without a diagonal in the plane of the main hoop, and base plates with enough area not to punch through the floor, they are harness bars, not roll over protection bars. That said, NHTSA rollover standards that all modern production cars have to meet are quite effective.
Sad to see this thread devolve into a debate over personal safety equipment choices and dark prognostications on the inevitability of a big accident in this great recreational undertaking we all love.
Serious incidents are rare. Event culture and the attitude of the driver count for much in improving the chances for a safe, enjoyable learning experience. HPDE and other track pursuits are wonderful ways to spend time with friends and working on personal improvement, while always respecting and maintaining a desired risk/benefit ratio.
Without a diagonal in the plane of the main hoop, and base plates with enough area not to punch through the floor, they are harness bars, not roll over protection bars. That said, NHTSA rollover standards that all modern production cars have to meet are quite effective.
Sad to see this thread devolve into a debate over personal safety equipment choices and dark prognostications on the inevitability of a big accident in this great recreational undertaking we all love.
Serious incidents are rare. Event culture and the attitude of the driver count for much in improving the chances for a safe, enjoyable learning experience. HPDE and other track pursuits are wonderful ways to spend time with friends and working on personal improvement, while always respecting and maintaining a desired risk/benefit ratio.
Happy Fathers Day.
Lost in the discussions about the speed of modern cars is always the vast improvements in safety of those cars.
You guys are ruining my high of driving at Daytona last month. Although I have a GT3 with only a GMG harness bar. I pushed 170 on track. Accidents Are just something I don’t dwell on
I say this with kindness, not criticism..... A harness bar is fine for low speed autocrosses, but one of the worst things you can have in your car at speed, and you are hitting very high speeds. Should the car go upside down, in street belts (3 point) you have a chance of survival on a roof crush as you will slide out the side and go upside down in the passenger footwell. The Harness bar (with harnesses) keeps you locked in the seat and that in turn means the roof comes down around your head. In a pancake roof event your chance of dying is pretty high.
This is really a slippery slope, and I am not out to scare anyone or say you have to do this, but if you are driving your car like its a race car, you may want to consider installing proper race car equipment so if you do have an incident, you have a much better chance of survival. That includes a full roll bar at a minimum (cage is preferred), a 1-piece shell seat that won't break in half like the adjustable seats (and break your neck/back if you slide backwards into the Armco), True 6 point harnesses that bolt to the floor, and a HANS device.
The choice is yours, really - just trying to make you aware of some things - we all want you to stay safe and have fun.
I just can't resist the urge to comment... "roof crush"?? What kind of modern car does that ?? "Pancake" the roof?? Again, what modern era car has B-pillars that weak?? Most cars even have pretty darn sturdy A-pillars too. Fact: 1/2 cages do nothing for A-pillar support or side-impact. Will certainly help with B-pillar support, so if you car has a weak or non-existent B-pillar, then 1/2 cage is a must. If the car has a solid B-pillar then 1/2 cage is really heavy harness bar, IMHO. That said, "confidence" is an important factor in good lap times, so if it feels good, do it!
06-17-2021, 03:30 PM
