DHI

Good info on the fact that timing can be turned off.
I expect this to be the biggest concern around compliance with Regional DE policies.
Thanks again !

DHI

...

ProCoach

Yes, it's interesting.

Personally, I think it's a non-issue, but old attitudes die hard...

The folks using Porsche's OWN Sports Chrono, Porsche's PPTA and all the other OEM tools for performance measurement like BMW's M-App, GM Performance's PDR and the Viper tool, especially common phone apps like Harry's Lap Timer, RaceChrono, TrackAddict and others, have ALL HAD THIS FEATURE for more than a decade.

I've recommended people tape over the screen, if tech folks got really ugly about it, but IMO, it's silly. The "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" of people pulling the tape off just makes me shake my head.

We're all adults here, I think!

If you're driving really quickly, you don't have time to be focused on that...

Papamurphdog

Happy that the timing feature can be turned off, so not running a "timed race" could be held true in an insurance scenario. One thing I'm looking forward to is the ability to compare your lap with the Garmin "perfect lap" using the dual window video reply feature. I watched a demo video by a husband/wife team, and they showed how the side-by-side video can be used after a session to "see" where the turn in changes and or the track-out changes location, when comparing the videos. That is a lot of what I get out of coaching, and I think that feature is going to be really helpful. Agree with most that I will likely never have "her" talking during a session, but heck, the instructors are talking a lot too! I'm looking forward to seeing what I can learn with the Garmin. with the

ProCoach

A "timed race," "speed competition" or other insurance tier does not exist where lap times are not publicly posted for comparison or b) there is not an organized "competition event" as part of the event schedule.

Every event operator and organizer that rents a top-level track has to supply proof of insurance for the event as part of the track contract. There are tiers of coverage for non-competition events and for competition events, centered around whether there are paying spectators or not.

National Clubs like PCA and BMW have blanket polices that they negotiate and pay an annual premium for coverage. Club Racing is separate from these.

This is a red herring that has been promoted for decades, when the information provided by all the leading EVENT insurance underwriters such as K&K, Naughton and others have NO wording about in-car timing at all.

As someone familiar with holding both "timed races" and HPDE and track day events dating back forty years, and having an office on the campus of a top tier race track for the last twenty years, I can assure you that in-car timing may be a local prohibition by some Regions but it is NOT an insurance prohibition in events that are not publicly posting times for comparison. Of course, there are those West Coast events...

I know you'll get good b benefit out of this great tool!

Wild Weasel

Thing is... none of that helps when the local organization prohibits them and is very strict about it.

This is how PCAUCR runs things and I’m absolutely sure that me pointing them to this info will not further endear me to them.

It’s better for me to play by their rules.

NaroEscape

It's interesting how different regions and groups interpret their "national" standards differently - which causes a lot of angst amongst their members and participants (and us vendors). Years ago when we lived in NNJR, it was absolutely forbidden to have any kind of timing device for DE's. This was pre-Solo days, when we had HotLap timers with a beacon. If they saw your beacon, first they would confiscate it, then kick you out when you came to get it.

On the other hand, here in the South we've sold data systems to the chief instructors, event chairs, and tech people of many regions and organizations. Some regions even ENCOURAGE lap timing and data info, especially to their advanced drivers.

We're right now working on a program to work with a few regions to introduce both the concept of how even simple data can improve your DE experience and driving competence, and what options are available depending on your budget, how you learn, and where you want to go with it. At the moment we spend a lot of time throughout the weekend at every DE we attend explaining this individually to someone that asks - so maybe a dozen times per weekend. We want to make it a more formal presentation - kind of the 'next step' in the classroom instruction.

FYI, we got another batch of cables that connects the Garmin to an IMSA helmet connection. Stilo connections are available too.

ProCoach

Always. Not suggesting otherwise.

Just pointing out that DE and track day event insurance doesn’t say anything about in-car timing.

dizzyj

I havent been able to crawl through this whole thread yet, but are there any comments to this review? https://amtmotorsport.com/blogs/news...-racers-review
mainly focusing around how the garmin compares to avarge lap, not best, and no ability to set a reference lap.

also, im looking at this, or a solo for an additional lap timer in my car. I have a full vbox hd2 setup, but the display (which I like to keep on predictive) is pretty limited. I'd like to see last lap, total laps..etc. Any comments about the garmin w.r.t being a lap timer? does the green/red transition? The display / lap timer might be justification for the added cost over a solo 2, with the coaching a need addition

jakermc

There is a lot I disagree with in that review, but only one thing I found to be plain stupid: "Because Garmin is focusing on track day drivers more than race car drivers, presenting data this way should be an effective tool to whittling down lap times, but for racers already close to the bleeding edge of performance I don't believe it is. All we care about is best lap times and don't tend to give a hoot about our average."

Last time I checked, the winner of a race was the first to cross the finish line. This is accomplished by achieving the lowest average lap time. I don't remember ever remember standing on the top step of the podium for having the fastest lap in a race. I guess the author raced in different series with different rules than I raced in?

As a lap timer, I do think the catalyst is the best thing out there. Big display and the colors help. There is even a gray color, not often discussed, that is displays when you are just marginally ahead or behind. It also gives an audible lap time in your ear so you don't have to look at it at all at the end of a lap if you choose not to.

ProCoach

Mark believes data should work the way he's familiar with. He wants to see it calculated the way he's always done it, so I understand the review. I also think it's a pretty provincial perspective, similar to jakermc's read.

Took me some time to get my head around it and I use this stuff every day. I think it's a powerful tool and, for many, many people, works great.

On the question of the additional display, I have seen and supplied more than two dozen drivers using both the VBOX HD2 and the Catalyst to good effect, some who post here and in this thread. Works great. The color shift and character size are very good.

A fair number of folks whom I have sold Catalysts to are new and longtime Solo DL/Solo 2 DL users, and are looking for something simpler, quicker and easier to use. Whatever floats your boat...

The benefit to me of running the Catalyst is the machine-learning, prioritized (three only) opportunity review on the device without download or opening a computer, in less than ten seconds after you come back in.

If you want to dig deeper, you can go to Circuit Tools 2, Race Studio Analysis or i2, depending on the "embedded" data system in the car. I'm glad to be able to offer all of these systems, for a variety of reasons and preferences.

dizzyj

appreciate the feedback. can anyone confirm the colors shift kinda like iracing? or is it 3 colors, red/grey/green?
What I really want is iracings lap timer. ability to select best lap, best of session, optimal..etc. have the split times, color bar. That combined with crewchief talking sector times and laptimes. then have the ability to turn the coach on or off. To me that would be ideal. It seems like this device has all the capability. maybe some feedback to the developers? Dont get me wrong, the coach stuff has some super potential, just seems like there are some base functionality that could be added that would also be game changing.

ProCoach

It has, if I understand your list, all of that functionality except for a direct analytical comparison between the best lap and the optimal lap. Instead, it jettisons all laps outside a tight, quick range and compares that AVERAGE to the optimal lap, in the post session opportunities presented. The sector times are there, but only in the broad open sectors it sets up, which in my experience, works well for defining the opportunities and change as you improve.

I've only ever seen the color change from green to red or vice versa, with a big delta number, best, last and lap number, so it’s all there. Sounds like it would work well for you.

jakermc

I am partially color blind so its possible the red/green looked grey to me under certain light conditions. I thought I saw this when the time was very close to '0', within a couple 1/100ths of even. But it could have been my eyes confused by it rapidly changing between red and green.

hsb1001

I had some fun with the Garmin last week at Sebring, for the first time I noticed it was struggling to keep up with changes in lap times or should i say driver mistakes...

The first part of the lap it was perfect and showing how much time I was quicker, then all of a sudden I made mistakes and it was going +1 -1 +1 -1 +1 -1, it was like a flashing Christmas tree each turn after the first mistake on T7, the poor thing didn't know if it was going to be a finish the lap I was trying to make up time for from my initial msitake.