MaxLTV

Exactly! I'd rather have Cayenne 7-seater - much more practical.

Hoopumpers

Big +1

kevin993

Isn't the 919 just a glorified development program for the next generation of 4 cylinder and hybrid cars? Porsche will of course leverage the marketing potential of the project, but the 919 engine doesn't exist anywhere else at present and Porsche has made clear that hybrids are the way of the future.

Glad to see the Cayman GT4 idea getting traction, but sadly Porsche will likely never again make the cars that those in our "niche" would want. Part of it is driven by regulations, but Porsche makes money on all of the people valuing luxury options and color-matched-stitching in their Panameras and Cayennes and they're just following the money. The 911 has become just a side project that gives the 4 doors some sporty credibility. Sadly, others are heading in that direction too - whoever would have thought that Bentley and Lambo would be considering an SUV? The Macaan will sell in huge numbers, so it really won't take long before the 911 is the exception rather than the rule. Such a shame that they dropped the ball so badly on the GT3.

JasonAndreas

The 918 (MY14) engine came from the RS Spyder 9R6 (2005), the Carrera GT (MY05) engine came from the F1 Footwork car (1991), the 911GT1 (MY96) engine came from the 956/962 (1984). So we should expect to see the 919 engine in a really expensive street legal super car sometime around MY25?

BBMGT3

The racing program is encouraging. Sort of.

The brand direction is not encouraging. Very Ford-ish circa 1980's-2000

sechsgang

If they are going off to develop messed up things, I'd rather have them make a sort of G-wagon/Defender competitor...I mean at least that has heritage to the tractors from yesteryear lol.

Z356

You have not seen a mule nor heard anything definitive because PAG doesn't want to jeopardize any potential 918 sale!


Exactly right!

That's not how VW sees Porsche role in the Group!

True!

What you are complaining about started a Porsche long before it was merged with VW!

It's a mixed bag. While it's true Porsche is fielding those teams, Porsche customer racing has suffered from lack of competitive 911 racing product! As I have posted elsewhere:

'The 800 lb Gorilla sitting in the corner of this discussion is the 'ghost' re: the former prowess of the 911- based gt3 derivates in competition racing - Cup, R, RS, RSR, GT America...Today, the important & key privateers are deserting Porsche because their current 911-based racing models are not perceived as 'competitive' and development work on these models has (for all practical purposes) stopped! You guys remember 'Flying Lizards Motorsports' or 'TRG'/Kevin Buckler? These folks are now driving Audi R8 LMS and Aston Martins! The answer to Porsche Motorsports' current dilemma will be the 960 & its racing derivates! That is why there is no question in my mind that the 960 will be produced....and fast! And it will come not a moment too soon!'

More on the 960 at the Porsche Supercars Forum at Rennlist:

https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...m-porsche.html

I must admit, however, that it does concern me to hear that Georg Kacher has been told the 960 is 'delayed until 2019'. He wrote a very interesting article on the 960 back in 2013:

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...rrari_fighter/

Saludos,
Eduardo
Vail Valley, CO

PS Porsche indeed has purchased a 51% share of Manthey-Racing GmbH

http://www.porsche.com/uk/aboutporsc...257C43002FC1B2

.

Guest89

If a mule existed - and were being tested - there would be pictures and video.

MayorAdamWest

I don't know the full story behind the switch, but is it possible they switched knowing that Porsche was entering factory teams in NA? TRG seems to mainly focus on Porsche still. Maybe they just got a sponsorship from Aston they couldn't refuse? Additionally, I don't see how that directly translates to the street car. For instance, the Z4 had the quickest lap times in the GTLM at Laguna Seca last weekend. That's an ancient platform that no one would take seriously as a high end sports car, but the factory team has done a great job prepping the race car.

In fact, reading the TRG website explains the change for them. They have exclusive rights for Aston racing. Something Porsche was never going to give them, now that they have a factory presence here.

From the TRG news: "Next year, Buckler will race Aston Martins in a deal signed this past year, which gives his organization exclusive control of the Aston Martin Racing program in North America. "

Z356

I am not saying a mule exists. Just the opposite. They are keeping everything related 960 FeFi under wraps until they sell and deliver every 918 they can sell (or reach their goal of 918 examples sold). They don't want any possibility of a 918 client canceling because of the 'hype' of a 960 which will 'borrow' quite a bit from what was developed for the 918 at a fraction of the cost! I expect 918 sales to be finished no later than Spring of 2015. Originally, they wanted to finished production by the end of 2014. But the start was delayed a bit.

So 918 sales is why PAG is so muted about anything related to the 960. And don't underestimate the possibility that false signals are being thrown around by high officials at PAG (e.g. perhaps this 2019 date in Kacher's piece) to throw the automotive journalists off the scent of the Fefi! Personally, I think Porsche needs this FeFi model (960) way before 2019 - something like 2016 or 2017 at the latest!

Great job indeed! Last year I visited the building at the BMW factory in Regensburg. We were given a guided tour of the BMW Motorsport workshop by its manager Irwin Schwarzensteiner. BMW Regensburg builds the complete body shell with roll cage and all the reinforcements needed for racing. The customer also gets the V8 race engine. They build between eight and twenty race cars per year. They only have nine employees. After Irwin and his team finish working on the Z4, it is nothing like the one you & I can buy at our local BMW dealership!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Vail Valley, CO

Petevb

I have friends in the industry: when they are ready for pictures of a new car to "leak" they flip each other for the chance to drive a prototype "by the fence" and get their picture in a magazine.

What we know and when we know it is generally very choreographed by the factory until late in the game. There are some things they can't do without detection (ie run the 'Ring) but there are other places to do that development with fewer eyes.

MayorAdamWest

With that, I'm not really sure why you've soured so much on the GT3 platform? Until last weekend, the two 911 RSR teams were 1,2 in the USCC. Their poor performance last weekend was as much about bad luck. Even the Falken team has been doing well.

Z356

It's not me that has soured. It's 'Flying Lizards', 'TRG' and others loyal Porsche customer racing teams that have been left out to hang. You have to read between the lines to understand the reason these guys have switched from Porsches!

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...ited-sportscar

http://www.marinij.com/novato/ci_243...s-from-porsche

But our discussion might all be moot pretty soon if the gt3 class is eliminated! As many of you know, ACO and FIA have announced a single GT category to replace GTE and GT3 - perhaps as early as 2015! Porsche and everybody else is waiting for the rules & regulations to see what to build/sell to the track oriented customers! I am betting that the next truly competitive Porsche motorsports model in the GT category will be the all new 960...and not a 911-derived gt3/RS/RSR model!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Vail Valley, CO

Nick

Eduardo, based on the valuable information you provided I decide not to cancel my deposit on the 960.

Guest89

Certainly the pics of 991 GT3 mules around San Francisco and the 'Ring were choreographed.

But the pics of the white 991 GT3 launch photoshoot that were taken in Portugal in Fall of 2012 were not choreographed, just as an example.

I understand Eduardo's position now that he has clarified.

I am very, very confident that there is no 960 mule.