Marin Vizsla

That's too bad since the replacement battery is a hefty price tag. What was the reason for Porsche rejecting your emissions warranty request? Do you not live in a state covered by the emissions warranty, your old battery did not fail the diagnostics test, etc.?

George718

I'm in NY and we are included in the emissions warranty. The rep I spoke to yesterday flatly said the battery was not covered under emissions. I mentioned that others have had their battery replaced under emissions and all she could say was sorry. This is the same BS i dealt with last June when I was in contact with them.
Utterly ridiculous.

bpcmd

I hate to admit I didn't know what that was for until now!

SpokoG35

Well - after spending over an hour reading all the posts related to Lithium-Ion issues and how expensive it is to replace, I decided to convert my wife's 2019 Cayenne to AGM. Thanks to the input from other members, I purchased the requisite parts (don't believe the dealers telling you that it is IMPOSSIBLE to convert from LiPOS to AGM - IT IS - cause I just did it)
Here is what you are going to need if you're driving 2019-2021 Cayenne (any trim/model):
1. Negative cable with battery monitor module Part# PAB-915-181-A
2. AGM Battery that will fit in the passenger footwell - I chose Bosch S6588B with 92Ah, 850 CCA
Because the original LiPO4 battery has a built-in control module that reports the voltage to the car's ECU - it uses a single PIN, LIN CANbus cable (part of car wire harness)
AGM on the other hand does not have an incorporated Control Module, so to report the voltage to the car's ECU, it needs an external Control Module (which PAB-915-181-A negative cable comes with). The caveat is that the external module has 2 PINs, so when I first installed the new AGM battery and connected the existing LIN CANbus cable, the car started and was running fine, except for the error on the dashboard, reporting low voltage condition and the gauge for the battery voltage was not showing any value just 3 dashes.
As it turns out, the original LIN CANBus plug has an empty slot (since LIPOS only utilizes 1 PIN) - so in order to fix it, you need to run a wire from the battery Positive terminal and insert it into the 2nd PIN slot in the LIN CANbus connector. You will need a special VAG 2 Pin Connector (I bought it on Amazon - Cable Harness Replacement 4H0973702A, which fits perfectly)
After the connection was made car started reporting Voltage and all errors cleared. I then proceeded to register the battery, using iCARSOFT scanner, which was also completed without errors.
There is one residual problem that may or may not be related to the AGM conversion - the "Stop/Start" feature does not seem to be working now (I believe it can be cleared\reporgrammed using PIWIS-III) but if that is the only problem, l am more than OK to live without it. In fact, I drive using Individual mode and have Start/Stop set to disabled anyways....
I will do the full write-up on Thursday after I get some additional parts to make it look OEM (wire sleeves and PINs from Amazon).
Total cost under $500 - beats the HELL out of $2200 I was quoted by the local dealer to have it replaced with yet another ****ty 9Y0915105QY LiPO4

SpokoG35

Did you have any issues with Stop/Start after the conversion? I just did my wife's 2019 Cayenne (swapped LiPO4 with AGM) and everything seems to be working fine (no errors) except the stop/start functionality. But if it can't be fixed - I'm perfectly OK without it - I hate that thing more than anything anyways...

beefchopper

If it killed start/stop I'd consider that a major win.

PorscheACC

AntiGravity, from the excellent above battery replacement information from SpokoG35, you should have enough to build kits to install either AGM or your AntiGravity Lithium batteries..

What do you think.?





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Antigravity

That is awesome Spoko posted and I am excited to see his write up. I didn't know the Cayenne's Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS) on the Lithium Battery for a Cayenne was a one wire type LIN/CAN... on the 992s (911s varients) it is a two wire system so that is really good to have pointed out.

About Antigravity Batteries making a kit... unfortunately we will not. Not because we don't think its a fantastic idea, but rather we let others who specialize in doing that type of thing provide kits or installation for the DIYer or those who want to bring it to a shop, there will be questions and issues that are too specific for us to be able to follow and develope kits for,and we are a bit swamped at this time with our own developement of new products. For example, we work with European Auto Source because they offer a great kit to change BMWs to be able to swap out their BMW Lithium to use AGM or Antigravity Lithium Batteries. We supply them Batteries and they sell and install the kits. Then the Customer has a specific very knowledgeable professional in that area that gets them the kit and can walk them through everything.

PorscheACC

Ok.. that sounds fair..

Im your opinion and on your battery knowledge, with the mentioned AGM conversion kit, one should be able to install your AntiGravity batteries or proper AGM batteries.. Is that correct..?

That should provide a lot of flexibility and relief for Porsche owners with problematic, defective, and overpriced Lithium batteries and the abusive $1,000+ installation/registration charges by Porsche..

Ironman88

Very good question.

An AGM battery would be a huge improvement over the LiFePO4 lithium battery - however the AGM is a heavy battery, and significantly heavier than the stock LiFePO4 battery. A good quality lithium might be a very beneficial option.

Andy2019

I live in Macon, Georgia…one hour south of Atlanta.

Will my battery be covered under emissions warranty?

matthewr87

Only thing you can do is contact a few dealerships in the area and see what they say. There doesn't seem to be a uniform response from dealerships in different parts of the country (which is absolutely ridiculous). Some people have it covered under the emissions warranty, others don't and even when they reach out to Porsche NA they get no help.

SpokoG35

That is true indeed - I was curious to see the difference in weight between the 2 battery types, so I weighed them.
LiFePO4 is 28 Lbs (approx 13kg)
AGM is 59 Lbs (almost 27kg)
The weight difference is significant (twice as much for the AGM) - but we're talking about a family-hauler SUV, not a 911 or Cayenne Turbo GT that you take to the track twice a month.
Even Porsche realized that and in light of ALL of the issues with LiFePO4 in 2019-2021 Cayennes - they've made a switch back to AGM, starting with the 2022 model year. I suppose they did it to avoid a class-action lawsuit or perhaps to save the brand's face for their well-known reliability.

Andy2019

Will never buy a Porsche again
Lexus much better
never had any problems

Antigravity

You will be able to install and AGM or and Antigravity Lithium so that is great for having options. As an FYI our Antigravity Batteries works perfectly fine as a direct swap into any car whether it has a AGM or Flooded Lead/Acid Battery. Yes, you can change PIWIS to be for Lithium Batteries, but it should be noted that in the earlier Lithium settings for the 991s the Lithium setting was really not optimal for our Lithium Batteries, it was intended only for Track use and charged only to a max of 13.8v when on the Lithium settting for the 991s, this was due to the intended Track use back then. But with the newer Cayenne models I do not know the profile of the charging for Lithium Batteries in the modern Porsches, but I assume it to be very similar to AGM. We tell people just to swap out our battery WITHOUT making any changes on the 911 Sports Car side. And this is because it just works fine with an AGM charging profile which is not much different from an LFP profile. So its plug and play. THis also keeps the DIY'er away from the DEALER who will muff things up and say it won't work and requires a Lithium setting and other such silliness. Just drop it in an go.

In regards to Lead and LFP stand alone chargers, in general they simply eliminate the dusulphate Charging mode that the Lead/Acid Setting usually offers in the smart chargers with other minor profile changes, but it quite close in the charging profiles otherwise, and in a Car it won't matter. The point being is our battery works in the AGM setting in the Cars and we want people to stay there as a baseline make sure all is working THEN if they choose to go into PIWIS to put on a Lithium setting they can.

As far as which one is better... honestly from my not knowing that much about the Cayennes and having read about some having high parastic draws and some other issues/problems that have to be either updated or taken into Porsche about, it might be best to go with a big old Lead/Acid with as many Amp Hours as you can get in there. I don't know if they can fit an H8 or H9 but that is a beefy battery. Our battery can for sure give you a longer life and has the built-in Jump Starting which is super cool, but the weight saving may not be desired on a big SUV. We have a 60Ah version of our Battery that many use in their SUVs/Truck/ where more capacity is wanted, but for some that is getting expensive for those who don't care about those features I spoke of. But now you will have options which is great.