fuenfer

My dealer offered me a 2016 loaner CD with original MSRP of $73k for $59.5k. It's been used for 6 months and has 8,000 miles on the clock. What says the collective wisdom on this board - anything I should specifically check for in a PPI? And does this seem like a reasonable deal?

mkptlb

I've been driving a loaner 2016 CD since December, when the delivery of mine was held up due to the stop sale. It had 20km on it when I started. It now has 13000+. It is perfect in every way with the only issue being a need to add AdBlue. At that price I would jump on it.

fuenfer

Thank you - my wife's hesitation right now, though, is that there will be a new model in one year. That said, given the price, I'm likely going through this anyway.

B.Kish

Warning!!

Read my previous posts. Your dealer can't sell you that car legally. He will be forced by PCNA to buy the car back after he reports the sale. I just went through this. And it cost the dealer a pretty penny to unwind the deal and was a hassle. Some dealers are working with erroneous information that they can legally sell these cars. They can't. In the end, if your dealer was like mine, he will make you whole but it's the hassle factor. I wish it weren't so, we loved the car for the three weeks we had it. Now we're shopping other Cayennes, the new Q7 and Rover Sport diesel.

You can PM me if you want details.

mkptlb

My sales person said it would take at least 4 to 6 months to ramp up diesel production again once this is settled. There is no end in sight at this point so who knows when the new model will be up for sale. I have seen a couple of "spy pics" of what they call the 2018 Cayenne model on line and not a lot seems to have changed, at least on the exterior. I believe that Porsche is also upgrading the warranty to 6 years and offering 3 years no charge maintanance. Really can't go wrong if you get those thrown in for that price.

skiahh

Yes, if it's spec'd the way you want or that you'll be happy with it the way it is.

Make sure it would come with the 6 year/100,000 mile warranty, though.

But... ask about this!

And, of course, get everything in writing!

mdrobc1213

Same info I got from my dealer. They can't sell those cars and those that are seem to be finding themselves in hot water with Porsche on a case-case basis as they find them out! So while the cost of sale is great savings wise and I WISH I would have been able to get mine at that price (we got a new v6 delivery with a good deal of savings thrown in); I'd be very wary about proceeding thru and make sure I'd get things in writing from Porsche North America NOT the dealer as if big brother tells them to buy the car back and reaquire it at some point once they found out about the illegal sale...then you'd be in the same positon as the previous poster. Savings now may mean a big PITA later...so is it really worth it?
I have heard the same and with the recent court case(s) still out there and the recent Euro suspension of the recall for the 2.0T's I wouldn't bet anything that this is anywhere near over. Judging from those I've talked to a my current dealership and a few GM's and SM's I stay in contact with CD production for 2016 was suspended for US models at min and there are NO plans to resume it for the 2017 MY so far. The new Cayenne as a 2018 will likely have a CD but as to whether we'll see it as a US model...that is very much unknown and money is unlikely until maybe 2019+ or a bit longer many are hearing especially if no resulting is made before the end of the summer/fall on the current EPA/CARB issue and govt fines/case. Too small a portion of total sales to worry about returning it to the US it seems until this dies down a bit and public memory fades a bit is what the probably course of action many of them are saying.

Yes you can go wrong as it seems more and more folk are buying CD's leftover which dealers cannot legally sell according to Porsche and then having to return the car and try to get your $$ back...well that is not the best course of action probably. But hey its your choice and free will to accept their offer or decline. Many dealers are taking so much of a bath on these cars which they cannot sell [according to Porsche w/out recourse] that they are taking a loss on since Nov that I am not surprised that deals such as these are appearing more and more even with some larger dealerships transferring the cars to other brands (i.e. BMW/Audi/Mercedes) in co-owned dealerships to then be able to sell them and defray their losses. IMHO I wouldn't do it with my own funds and take the risk..but hey buyer beware they say!
Ditto and I'd get a good lawyer to look at anything the put in writing too before I'd go thru with it! GL

fuenfer

And just as we were about to conclude a deal for the '16 Cayenne Diesel, my dealer says they were told this morning that there is a stop-sale on used Cayenne Diesel's too. While I'm very disappointed, I'm not surprised thanks to the intel on this board - thank you everyone for your advice.

fincher

Smart dealer! The stop-sale is technically voluntary on the 3.0 diesel but virtually every dealer removed them from sale.

mdrobc1213

Glad you didn't get caught up in something that would have cost you frustration or worse later on. But yeah sounds like what my guys had told me and quite a few others was true. Glad your guys got the word.
I don't think its as voluntary as many of you are being led to believe. I had a very long discussion yesterday with my service manager who says ALL of their Cayenne diesels are being shipped back to port [likely for return to Germany]. They were removing dealer installed options over the past month or so and he also re-confirmed that they cannot sell ANY of them used or new to anybody. Sales manager said they can try it but as soon as the sale is reported to Porsche and recorded; Porsche will require them to re-purchase the vehicle from the seller as you have seen and hopefully the buyer will be made whole but that is a big unknown. If it were me...I wounldn't chance it for a small % off MSRP or savings real or precieved...due to the amount of frustration and painful back and forth between Porsche and myself. Especially with no likely resolution pending or available...wouldn't chance it.

gnat

Voluntary in this context usually means that the government hasn't required it. In that sense it is indeed still voluntary as there is no such requirement.

visitador

Basically, please don't charge me with a crime bc I am returning back the stolen property. lol

skiahh

As I understand it, the stop sale is voluntary, from a legal perspective. The government did not (and has not, as far as I've heard) require Porsche to stop selling the CD. Porsche took the step on their own. Possibly to head off a government requirement, but so far, they haven't... or at least it hasn't been made public if they issued one to Porsche. So there is no legal bar to these vehicles being sold; new or used. And let's make sure when we say "legally" we're referring to the law and not what PCNA requires of its dealers policy-wise... I'm sure those policies have legal implications within the franchise agreement, but to you and me, not so much.

Porsche can require whatever they want of their dealers, but if I've bought a vehicle, they can't require ME to sell the vehicle back to them. There's the rub. They can entice me to resell the vehicle by offering to buy it from me at more than I paid for it, but a simple refund may not be sufficient for me to relinquish the vehicle.

If it's sold as a new vehicle, as long as the vehicle warranty has not been specifically denied, then they must honor it. Same with CPO. If it's sold as-is, then it would fall to the dealer to cover any type of promised and implied warranty. That seems to be the only real hook PCNA might have in "forcing" someone to give up a vehicle, but I don't see how they could say no warranty after the sale and make that stick.

So if it's legally (as in under the law, not PCNA policy) sold, PCNA has no legal means to force me to return the vehicle. I would be very curious to hear how the dealers that have sold and then had to retrieve a CD are presenting the issue to the owners.

As for making the buyer whole, I guess buying it back would have to happen as basically a full refund, so the only remaining problem would be any trade-in as far as making a buyer whole.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer (nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night), so for the lawyers out there, if I'm wrong, please educate me and the rest of us on what would happen if we simply said no, I'm not returning the vehicle I legally purchased.

gnat

That's my take. I think at this point if the VAG brands not done the voluntary stop sale (or rescinded it) then I'd say there is a better than average chance that the government would step in and say "No sales for you!".

PCNA's reaction and forcing dealers to try to buy them back may be a continuation of that in that they don't want the government to think they are doing an end run and then have them step in.

You signed a lot of paperwork when you bought the car with some pretty ugly (in my opinion) binding clauses.

When I bought mine I crossed out a few of the clauses and told them they were unacceptable (that I couldn't sell it with in 6 months and binding arbitration being the big ones). They didn't bat an eye and initialed right next to me.

My point being that there could very well be something in there to cover their *** in such a situation.

I also think that if they are coming and saying "we'll give you back your purchase price and cover other related expenses" most people just won't see it as worth fighting. Especially if they throw in a good deal on a non-diesel model.

I would expect that if you refused, then you'd get a nasty gram from either their lawyer or one from PCNA's army. At that point you'll have to get a lawyer of your own and your costs are going to go up while your ability to recoup your costs will go down.

I love mine, but if I had just bought it and they came with hat in hand just after I bought it and offered a solution where there was no cost to me and maybe even some benefit, I wouldn't have fought it.

skiahh

You had me worried that I missed something in there, so I just looked at the sales agreements for both the CD and BS. None of that stuff in there. I could have driven off the lot and sold the car immediately. I think WA law covers the arbitration aspects for both of us, but nothing on the agreement about that, either. And nothing in there I can see that would let PCNA force me to relinquish the car.

I agree that PCNA could sick their lawyers on someone, but with the paperwork I have in hand, you could just tell them to eff off and there's not a lot they could do, really. Maybe different in other states or based on other sales agreements... but pretty sure I'd be able to keep one if I bought it here!