Dr Cayenne

^ This summarizes the situation quite nicely. And I totally agree the points made about CARB/EPA, are just red herring(s).

The simple fact of the matter is that we, as the owners of these vehicles are left with vehicles with a diminishing secondhand buyer base, a tainted image, a vehicle discontinued by the manufacturer.....which will all play to the hands of possible bargain shoppers.

The compensation that people will get is going to be immediately discounted by the market. Similar to most domestic vehicles, most of which has a big delta between their MSRP and their purchase price. Those vehicles are never valued by their MSRP in the second hand market.

The biggest cost of ownership in any vehicle is depreciation. The facts mentioned above clearly demonstrates how VW royally screwed us, their loyal, mostly fanatic (and I can count myself in to that description) customers.

Based on what we have seen so far, there is clearly lack of ethics, morality and respect to customers...but in addition there is a staggering lack of communication skills.

I find all this to be...unbelievable

If these forums are monitored in any form or fashion, I think owners have a responsibilty to express their frustration (rather than getting into deep discussions about artificial topics like EPA/CARB what not).

Maybe that will change their attitude in finding a solution and teach them to communicate better with their customers....just maybe.

Spyerx

One 'associated person' told me "noise"

Who knows

visitador

22 minutes of noise suppression

chsu74

+1

The CD is tuned perfectly. Even when you step on it, the rpm and gearing syncs you right in the power band at all times. Not sure how the "fix" is going to improve/keep the drivability aspect of the car.

Searcher356

Your question is a good one. One thing, though, I haven't heard VW admit to a defeat device on the 3.0L engines. If there isn't one, then it's guilt by association.

In answer to your question:
Let's suppose that EPA still hasn't complied with the 2002 Court order to write complete regulations. And let's say that the Media gets wind of testing by independents that show VW's are emitting greater than allowed pollutants. And let's say that the Public gets irate, but as usual has no clue where to direct their anger. VW becomes the stuff that tabloids feed on, and mis-information and disinformation flies wildly about.
The EPA and CARB are joyful that nobody is pointing fingers at them for not doing their job, including complying with a direct Court Order to do so, and they pile on.

VW can either capitulate to the $$$$Billlions of non-associated fines and electric grid infrastructure on top of restitution to owners, or they can counter-sue EPA for dereliction of duty and lack of appropriate guidance, and claim that they did not in fact violate any written regulations.
(At least one petroleum company did just that - resulting in re-affirmation by the Courts of EPA's responsibility to write regs. Sinclair, I think.)

But what would be the outcome if VW fought the EPA and CARB? They would be in Court for years, and it may not be a wise decision to "offend" the Agencies that regulate you.
And of course, we think we know that VW made conscious decisions to circumvent the intent of the law (somebody admitted it). They just have a weak hand.
Leaving the decision for such a counter-suit in the hands of a politically-appointed Judge may be even more stupid than doing the deed in the first place.

So the better tactic (especially with the VW Board comprised of several anti-VW Directors) might be to pay the money and shut up, hoping the mess would blow over before their funds dried up.

I would prefer to see the Auto Industry as a whole, sue EPA & CARB and (again) force them to write real-world regulations. But that would probably backfire - the regs would likely be punitive in nature, instead of constructive.

(If somebody on this Forum can find EPA regs subsequent to their 2006 "Intent to Regulate Durability" documents, let me know. I have not been able to find them.)

Dr Cayenne

PJ Cayenne

Let's face it, this is our number one priority. Not sure we'd notice a 1-2 mpg drop, wouldn't be happy about it, but it they'd compensate for that. Nothing can compensate revising the CD to drive like something we didn't buy in the first place.

Needsdecaf

Yeah, that definitely pissed me off in the letter I got too.

Needsdecaf

Hear hear.

The current regs are ridiculous. And I'm not talking just diesel or emissions, I'm talking CAFE, etc. These huge loopholes for oversized vehicles are ridiculous.

And don't get me started on off road diesel, and on-road heavy hauling diesel. I had a diesel generator running at my construction site 24/7 for 3 months and I guarantee I put out more emissions in that time than every single 3.0L diesel that VAG sold cumulative.

Searcher356

Here's my hope, as an outcome of Dieselgate:
A long-term Re-Think of how EPA regulates. I'd like to see more data-driven goals, and fewer Poll-driven Regs that are intended to shape elections. There is a lot at stake here (the future of Transportation), and manufacturers will continue to be held hostage without succinct guidance.

As affected owners, we should to see beyond this red herring the EPA is using to deflect criticism, and hold EPA/CARB's feet to the fire, to do their jobs.

I just hope they don't hold up a settlement with Owners until they get on track with the Mission they are charged with.

skiahh

Well, here's something that says there are laws - criminal laws - here, that are in effect... and effectively written enough to convict someone.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compa...ate/ar-AAiHuOw

Searcher356

Correct, and we have smoking guns that VW mislead the Feds. Better coverage here: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...rges/90118226/

But the case here is fabricating in-house tests that were submitted to the EPA for vehicle certification, not violating emissions rules.

Which leads us back to the lack of written Regulations for autos after they leave the test cycle. And the dilemma the EPA is now facing - leading to ever-increasing scrutiny of Diesels from all manufacturers.
With effective Regulations, manufacturers could engineer, build, release and sell their autos. Now, it's just stalling by the Feds while they go through the motions of applying non-existent rules.

Mark Dreyer

Took my Spyder in for the 10k mile service and was given a Cayenne diesel loaner. I was surprised that the engine was a lot louder at idle than my TDI Touareg. Also dash vibration associated with the engine at idle. Is this a normal thing on these vehicles or is there likely an issue? My Touareg is so quiet you wouldn't guess it was diesel. Other than that, I loved the Cayenne. I particularly liked the 32 mpg which my Touareg no longer gets. I have the Touareg at my local mechanic for a 120k mile service. He thinks he can get my fuel mileage back with the air filter replacement. Fingers crossed.

f4 plt

I can't speak to the Cayenne Diesel you drove but I have a 2014 Cayenne Diesel with 54,000 plus miles on it and it remains quiet. It is my wife's daily driver and has never had a problem other than a random nav map loading issue. We have used it as a tow vehicle many times and it has performed superbly. We could not be happier with it or our 2015 Cayenne diesel that now has over 21,000 miles both are excellent vehicles that we plan to keep for many years and miles

infinitybreaker

Took my Cayenne Diesel to get trade values at three different Porsche dealerships. 45k-50k was the offers I received. Car had an MSRP of 90k and is a a 2015 model with 14400 miles.