Originally Posted by B.Kish

He said his understanding is the issue can be resolved via software not hardware for the V6's but gave no time line and didn't know why the issue was taking so long to resolve.

Originally Posted by PJ Cayenne

I have a hard time believing the emissions can be brought into compliance with changing some lines of code without significant increases in fuel consumption and adblue and reduced power. If a reflash is all that's needed, it would have been done long ago.

Originally Posted by skiahh

As I understand it, the stop sale is voluntary, from a legal perspective. The government did not (and has not, as far as I've heard) require Porsche to stop selling the CD. Porsche took the step on their own. Possibly to head off a government requirement, but so far, they haven't... or at least it hasn't been made public if they issued one to Porsche. So there is no legal bar to these vehicles being sold; new or used. And let's make sure when we say "legally" we're referring to the law and not what PCNA requires of its dealers policy-wise... I'm sure those policies have legal implications within the franchise agreement, but to you and me, not so much.

Porsche can require whatever they want of their dealers, but if I've bought a vehicle, they can't require ME to sell the vehicle back to them. There's the rub. They can entice me to resell the vehicle by offering to buy it from me at more than I paid for it, but a simple refund may not be sufficient for me to relinquish the vehicle.

If it's sold as a new vehicle, as long as the vehicle warranty has not been specifically denied, then they must honor it. Same with CPO. If it's sold as-is, then it would fall to the dealer to cover any type of promised and implied warranty. That seems to be the only real hook PCNA might have in "forcing" someone to give up a vehicle, but I don't see how they could say no warranty after the sale and make that stick.

So if it's legally (as in under the law, not PCNA policy) sold, PCNA has no legal means to force me to return the vehicle. I would be very curious to hear how the dealers that have sold and then had to retrieve a CD are presenting the issue to the owners.

As for making the buyer whole, I guess buying it back would have to happen as basically a full refund, so the only remaining problem would be any trade-in as far as making a buyer whole.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer (nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night), so for the lawyers out there, if I'm wrong, please educate me and the rest of us on what would happen if we simply said no, I'm not returning the vehicle I legally purchased.

Originally Posted by gnat

That's my take. I think at this point if the VAG brands not done the voluntary stop sale (or rescinded it) then I'd say there is a better than average chance that the government would step in and say "No sales for you!".

PCNA's reaction and forcing dealers to try to buy them back may be a continuation of that in that they don't want the government to think they are doing an end run and then have them step in.


You signed a lot of paperwork when you bought the car with some pretty ugly (in my opinion) binding clauses.

When I bought mine I crossed out a few of the clauses and told them they were unacceptable (that I couldn't sell it with in 6 months and binding arbitration being the big ones). They didn't bat an eye and initialed right next to me.

My point being that there could very well be something in there to cover their *** in such a situation.

I also think that if they are coming and saying "we'll give you back your purchase price and cover other related expenses" most people just won't see it as worth fighting. Especially if they throw in a good deal on a non-diesel model.

I would expect that if you refused, then you'd get a nasty gram from either their lawyer or one from PCNA's army. At that point you'll have to get a lawyer of your own and your costs are going to go up while your ability to recoup your costs will go down.

I love mine, but if I had just bought it and they came with hat in hand just after I bought it and offered a solution where there was no cost to me and maybe even some benefit, I wouldn't have fought it.

Originally Posted by B.Kish

Having had a car bought back, I called the regional Porsche rep for clarification since PCNA still lists them on their locator and dealers still advertise them.

He said the stop sale WAS voluntary but is not now. It is government mandated. It is 100% for VAG dealers, no sales of Cayenne diesels of ANY kind (used, new, titled, etc)

He said his understanding is the issue can be resolved via software not hardware for the V6's but gave no time line and didn't know why the issue was taking so long to resolve.

He suggested I may be able to buy the car back when the stop sale ended. I told him the selling dealer made me an offer on a 2016 that was maybe better than the 2015 for when the stop sale ended. He didn't say the 2016's were all being rounded up and brought back to the Fatherland.

I think that was it. Helped my better understand some of the confusion.

Originally Posted by B.Kish

He said it was how it would be fixed but the devil is in the details because he didn't say anything about AdBlue or fuel consumption which will obviously change. We've seen that with the "fix" in Europe which is software only and has been stopped due to increased fuel consumption.

Originally Posted by B.Kish

He said it was how it would be fixed but the devil is in the details because he didn't say anything about AdBlue or fuel consumption which will obviously change. We've seen that with the "fix" in Europe which is software only and has been stopped due to increased fuel consumption.

Originally Posted by mdrobc1213

Porsche is notorious for regulating sales (maybe not as much as some other luxury brands) but they do protect it. I have seen them blacklist folks for violating sales policies and that is real. Individuals on those lists cannot get certain cars or models from dealerships so I am sure that some recourse does exist for them in that we are not purvue to.

Originally Posted by billyg

So why would the vehicle all of a sudden not pass?

Originally Posted by gnat

Yeap that's what the "no resale" clause in my contract was about. Apparently at the time they were having an issue with US cars being bought and then shipped to China for resale at prices that were seriously undercutting their new car sales there (the US is on the cheaper end of new car prices while China is on the higher end).

They were very clear that regardless of if that clause was included, if my VIN turned up in the grey market in China I'd never be able to purchase another new Porsche.

I've also heard of people getting blacklisted when it was found that they were just a shell buyer for someone else already on the blacklist.

I've heard rumors that the blacklist includes used Porsches from Porsche dealers too, but I have no confirmation about that.


I've seen that first hand too. The dealer we bought both our cars from apparently disagreed with PAG/PCNA over the 944/928 and refused to sell them. Even in 98 when we started talking to them about our 996 PCNA was still withholding allocations from them which is why it took us 2 years to get our build slot.

The original management finally left and now they are back in PCNA's good graces.

PCNA is as ruthless as the Catholic church and has just as long of a memory!

Originally Posted by Dbltime

I think tomorrow is the big day. VW needs to submit a acceptable plan for compliance or the court will decide their fate.