GVA-SFO

@Needsdecaf wrote : "Please get out of here with this crap..."

Are we in a forum here, where one can express his opinion ?
Or are we under the dictatorship of Mr. Needsdecaf ?

gnat

No they wouldn't have, but the change in CAR emissions since the inception on those regulations hasn't made a bit of difference. Cars always have represented an insignificant amount of the total emissions being released. If they actually cared and wanted to do something meaningful they would be targeting manufacturing in 3rd world countries as well as in our own and all the shipping and airplane emissions.

And if you think the EVs they are pushing us to are "clean", I suggest you read up on how the batteries are mined and manufactured.

He is right, CARB is a joke with far too much power and its controlled by short sighted imbeciles that can't see the real impact of their decisions.

GVA-SFO

Well written Gnat, I fully agree with you.
Yes, the car emission is a little very tiny peanut, ..compared to the other pollutants, i.e.: the ones out of the coal fired power plants (about 40% of the electricity of the US !!), and very particularly the old ones, that are fully amortized, and still operate at super low operating costs, to generate cheap electricity and thus being huge dirty cash cows, owned by VERY influential people (google to check who owns these fat and very dirty cash cows !!) ..that also own and manage strong lobbyists.
But, it is so easy to extract (I should probably write extortion !) $$$ from the car industry, ..and us, the car buyers.

One that would be very rebel would probably say :
They asked the car industry to pass the tests, ..and the VW cars did pass these tests.
Now, if these tests were not testing the real situation, is this the VW problem ?
Or the problem of the test organizers ?

visitador

Just one word: BMW. It is doable.

This thread was going quite civilized. No matter the pros or con of the regs, VW cheated. BMW showed with the X5 that it is possible to meet the standards in real world driving. No one has come forward disputing the results from the original experiment.

With the small engines, VW gained profits that it should not have. It discouraged other manufacturers from entering the diesel market. Mazda and Honda gave up. Only Chevy entered the market with the diesel Cruze after fitting it with DEF.

With the 3.0 engine, I wonder how many more customers did VW gained from Toureg, Audi, Porsche sales. The numbers in terms of mpg and torque were better than those of BMW, Mercedes and Chrysler.

Needsdecaf

He's more than welcome to express his opinion, as am I welcome to comment on his.

Needsdecaf

Never said anything about EV's, did I? Agree that the batteries are a disaster. And I also acknowledged that there is most definitely issues with the government in general and CARB.

I agree, that focusing on cars is weak. I have a construction site where I just had to run a diesel generator for 24 hours a day for almost 3 months. I made a comment the other day that that one generator alone probably made more emissions than all 800k VW's did in their entire lifespans.

However, I still object to the thought that we shouldn't be mad at VW for cheating the system, and that somehow the magic of free enterprise would have made our cars spew rainbows and unicorns. VW cheated. That's a fact.

I also object to the portrayal of "big government" trying to lord themselves over industry like its some kind of ego trip. Demi Gods to mere mortals. As someone who has lived and worked in the DC area, I have seen tremendous governmental waste and would be the first to call our current form of government a total train wreck. But I would also tell you that most of the people in those positions are trying to simply do the right thing and instead of completely bashing the system maybe try to get involved and do something?

I agree, CARB policy is short sighted and unrealistic. But it's also via direction from well
Above them.

GVA-SFO

I suppose you mean the X3, with the 28D engine (a 4 cylinder 2 liter), as, to my knowledge, this engine has never been fitted into the X5.

So, you are talking about the "N27" engine, ...which has been replaced in Europe by the new "B27" engine (now, also in the US ??).
See: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...el-test-review

Well, doable, yes, ..may be.
Most probably : It all depend "how" you "test" it !!!

GVA-SFO

Well, let's do NOT compare/mix up with what was true for NiMH (i.e.: used in first Prius) (..and NiCad, not used in the modern automobile industry),
..with the new modern Li-ion !

..And do not forget, that oil is ALSO a disaster (and also adding "things" like BP in the Gulf, or Exxon Valdez and etc..).
For example, I hope that you know that the (about 140 oil) refineries are also the LARGEST gas consumers of the country !

Needsdecaf

The X5 has been sold in the US with diesel power for two generations in a row. First with the twin turbo six, now with the single turbo.

visitador

I think I posted the link awhile ago in this thread about the results from the independent researches that found the X5 diesel passing the road tests in California, unlike the VW 1.6 and 2.0 diesels. No one has disputed the results so far.

gnat

Sorry for the delay in responding. Breaking up a quote sucks on the tablet

I didn't say you were (the you was proverbial). It was an example of CARB's short sighted and idiotic nature.

Not arguing that as you are correct. The laws are a joke because they were created by/for people that want to feel good rather than do good, but they are the laws currently in place.

I agree that the average worker is just doing their job and tends to get a lot of flak for stuff that is either untrue or completely out of their control.

You do, however, also get the low level people that do abuse their position for their own reasons (e.g. applying different levels of adherence to different people). Much like cops, it's a small number of bad apples that ruins the bunch unfortunately.

The real problem, however, is those actually running the various organizations are doing so as they see fit to their own personal and political agendas.

JRoach

Does anybody think that these threads/boards are monitored by the manufacturer? If so, I'm more interested in them hearing from owners about what needs to be done to make a CD owner feel secure/comfortable with their purchase.

We seem to all agree that its the pits, that we don't favor a class action suit and that for the most part are happy with the car as it is. To me a buy back seems like it would mean the end for the CD. How do you buy something back and not effect the resale of the current models.

mdrobc1213

Well this just in. Should definitely make the resolution of this process go more quickly! NOT

http://autoweek.com/article/vw-diese...n=awdailydrive

Its like a never ending bad dream! ;(

On another note dealer has located another two vehicles (non CD) and offered them to us. What is a respectable amount to ask for off the sticker. They have put forth a number which I think is low considering all we've been thru but wanted to see what others have gotten or suggest.

gnat

What's the sticker price and how close are they to your desired configuration (sans TDI)?

mdrobc1213

$72k on offered vehicle v6 Cayenne (2016). Almost identically optioned other than wheels. Would fit the bill as ordered other than the different engine and slightly reduced performance. So what should out the door price be given the circumstances in you guys opinion?