Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue
#286
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thats about what I figured too. Unfortunately, admittedly, I didn't know all the math behind leasing. I only leased another because I can pay for it with pretax dollars instead of depreciating it.
Warranty doesn't help with a lease, but since this is our 2nd CD and I ordered it to the exact specs we wanted, I think we should buy and hold it for a long time.
Warranty doesn't help with a lease, but since this is our 2nd CD and I ordered it to the exact specs we wanted, I think we should buy and hold it for a long time.
Since this is a business expense the advantage is unclear...only your accountant knows for certain.
#287
Three Wheelin'
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Now that I know what they did to me with the lease, I don't really care about the tax advantage. I bought 2 cars that day, and they were my 2nd and 3rd vehicles from this dealership, and to know they took advantage of me because I wasn't clear on the workings of the lease calculations pisses me off. I'm done with this dealership now. The next porsche will come from the other local dealer.
#288
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As for EPA and their demands; they can only guess but say given the fact that CARB is also involved and the extent of the violations; the EPA may require cars be flagged so that if the patch is not applied then cars that don't meet emissions requirements (aka the fix) may not be registered or allowed to register. All this is up in the air as emissions is usually a state-state issue however the overall emissions guidelines are federal one and if state are at a loss of highway funding and such if they allow the CD's to stay out of compliance, then CD owners may see themselves forced into compliance or their cars not allowed to be registered and loss of tags, etc. Most states renew either annually or bi-annually so I can see how they could take that hard line and force cars to update out there either by the owners choice or they catch you when you go for new tags cause you're car is flagged.
![Frown](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
Nothing is for certain at this point however I guess as they [dealership] say they are still mostly in the dark as to the future of the cars and when the ban will lift and what other actions will occur next other than the newest warranty issue release/decision. The EPA has extended the deadline for VW thru mid-Jan tho for Porsche to provide more info on the proposed fix and emission data to the EPA's [the latest I've seen online from the US/CARB end of this]. Guess a long wait for everyone involved I suspect is in store.
Last edited by mdrobc1213; 12-29-2015 at 08:14 PM.
#289
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Is it time for Mueller to step down as well? He told us all in the beginning that Porsche was not a culprit. Given that they did a stop sale and pulled the car from the website it looks like he was wrong or can't figure out how to tell CARB that its ok. Either way, hardly stellar leadership.
Would it have been a better approach to release the extended warranty at the same time as the fix? Does anybody else feel like: what have you done for me lately? Does anybody see Ken Feinberg as a move towards "I want to help the Porsche owner" and brand? Handling the PR is more important than the fix in these cases. Instead of working towards a swift resolution this has now become
a 'stall' under the guise of thoroughness in order to shake the momentum.
Also, I noticed that "Car Gurus" has new 2015 and 16 CD's for sale...curious. The inventory on the website for the one dealer I looked at matched the Car Gurus info. I thought these were 'banned'.
Would it have been a better approach to release the extended warranty at the same time as the fix? Does anybody else feel like: what have you done for me lately? Does anybody see Ken Feinberg as a move towards "I want to help the Porsche owner" and brand? Handling the PR is more important than the fix in these cases. Instead of working towards a swift resolution this has now become
a 'stall' under the guise of thoroughness in order to shake the momentum.
Also, I noticed that "Car Gurus" has new 2015 and 16 CD's for sale...curious. The inventory on the website for the one dealer I looked at matched the Car Gurus info. I thought these were 'banned'.
#290
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FYI:
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...ssions_scandal
Resale value:
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...ssions_scandal
As of 26 October, the resale value of affected model cars in the US was down from 5 to nearly 16 percent depending on model as compiled by Black Book and Kelley Blue Book based on used car auction prices, the volume of which was also down.
VW Action Plan (maybe a plan for the VW's has been accepted):
ref: http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/newsrelease.php?id=779
Dear Mr. Geanacopoulos:
As a result of Volkswagen Group of America’s (VW) continued submission of additional significant information and data to the California Air Resources Board (CARB) as part of VW’s proposed 2.0L influenced emission recall plan (Title 13, Cal. Code Regs. § 2113) --- including information VW submitted in writing on December 14, 2015, and verbally as recently as December 16, 2015 --- CARB plans to act on your proposed 2.0L influenced emission recall plan on or before January 14, 2016.
Mr. Stuart Johnson, on behalf of VW, discussed this issue with me earlier this week. Please confirm in writing to me, no later than noon Pacific Time, Monday, December 21, 2015, that VW has no objection to CARB’s planned response date of on or before January 14, 2016.
As you know, VW submitted a December 15, 2015, request for an extension to submit VW’s supplemental, proposed 2.0L influenced emission recall plan to CARB. CARB will also respond to this extension request on or before January 14, 2016.
If you have any questions, I can be reached at (626) 450-6150.
Sincerely,
Annette Hebert, Chief
Emissions Compliance, Automotive Regulations, and Science Division
Consumer Reports evaluates likely performance issues with update:
Ref: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...ssions-recall-
Did Skirting of the Emissions Rules Result in Better Fuel Economy and Performance? It appears so. In response to the scandal, Consumer Reports conducted new testing of 2015 and 2011 Volkswagen TDI diesel vehicles in this “cheat” mode to assess fuel economy and performance. We found a noticeable decline in fuel economy for both models. Our testing also showed reduced acceleration with the 2011 model, which is equipped with a lower-tech diesel filtration system.
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...ssions_scandal
Resale value:
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...ssions_scandal
As of 26 October, the resale value of affected model cars in the US was down from 5 to nearly 16 percent depending on model as compiled by Black Book and Kelley Blue Book based on used car auction prices, the volume of which was also down.
VW Action Plan (maybe a plan for the VW's has been accepted):
ref: http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/newsrelease.php?id=779
Dear Mr. Geanacopoulos:
As a result of Volkswagen Group of America’s (VW) continued submission of additional significant information and data to the California Air Resources Board (CARB) as part of VW’s proposed 2.0L influenced emission recall plan (Title 13, Cal. Code Regs. § 2113) --- including information VW submitted in writing on December 14, 2015, and verbally as recently as December 16, 2015 --- CARB plans to act on your proposed 2.0L influenced emission recall plan on or before January 14, 2016.
Mr. Stuart Johnson, on behalf of VW, discussed this issue with me earlier this week. Please confirm in writing to me, no later than noon Pacific Time, Monday, December 21, 2015, that VW has no objection to CARB’s planned response date of on or before January 14, 2016.
As you know, VW submitted a December 15, 2015, request for an extension to submit VW’s supplemental, proposed 2.0L influenced emission recall plan to CARB. CARB will also respond to this extension request on or before January 14, 2016.
If you have any questions, I can be reached at (626) 450-6150.
Sincerely,
Annette Hebert, Chief
Emissions Compliance, Automotive Regulations, and Science Division
Consumer Reports evaluates likely performance issues with update:
Ref: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...ssions-recall-
Did Skirting of the Emissions Rules Result in Better Fuel Economy and Performance? It appears so. In response to the scandal, Consumer Reports conducted new testing of 2015 and 2011 Volkswagen TDI diesel vehicles in this “cheat” mode to assess fuel economy and performance. We found a noticeable decline in fuel economy for both models. Our testing also showed reduced acceleration with the 2011 model, which is equipped with a lower-tech diesel filtration system.
#291
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Hello - many Canadians out there? I think I saw one post on this thread from a Cdn owner who received an email from Porsche Canada, copy and paste from Porsche N.A. president, with that email at least acknowledging there is an issue.
I have received zip for communication from dealer or Porsche Canada, which is odd because the local dealer has removed all CD's from their website, so they are beginning to address this issue but providing no communication to their customers?
We are original owners, purchased from the local dealer and I bought a Porsche extended warranty right off the bat.
Also not sure if there will be a "choice" on the part of the owner as to whether or not to institute the repair or not. We have no emissions testing in my province (unlike in British Columbia when we lived there in late '90s). I wonder how the repair could be mandated in my environment (unlike, say, in California where it sounds like you will not be able to register your vehicle without proof of the repair). Or if the dealer would just do the software changes when you take it in for some other reason and just do it. Or if I could tell the dealer to not do it.
Our local dealer and apparently Porsche Canada's approach seems disorganized, this late into the process. Not even a frikking email.
Doesn't even address compensation issues including how those of us who already paid for the Porsche ext. warranty out of the gate.
Happy Holidays everyone!
I have received zip for communication from dealer or Porsche Canada, which is odd because the local dealer has removed all CD's from their website, so they are beginning to address this issue but providing no communication to their customers?
We are original owners, purchased from the local dealer and I bought a Porsche extended warranty right off the bat.
Also not sure if there will be a "choice" on the part of the owner as to whether or not to institute the repair or not. We have no emissions testing in my province (unlike in British Columbia when we lived there in late '90s). I wonder how the repair could be mandated in my environment (unlike, say, in California where it sounds like you will not be able to register your vehicle without proof of the repair). Or if the dealer would just do the software changes when you take it in for some other reason and just do it. Or if I could tell the dealer to not do it.
Our local dealer and apparently Porsche Canada's approach seems disorganized, this late into the process. Not even a frikking email.
Doesn't even address compensation issues including how those of us who already paid for the Porsche ext. warranty out of the gate.
Happy Holidays everyone!
#292
Rennlist Member
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Thanks all. I just called PCNA and spoke to their customer care folks. Seems my VIN (2013 CD) is not affected by the diesel emissions issues. They said it was VIN specific and based on manufacturing date. Mine is an early 2013 model year with production completed 10-1-2012. So no extended warranty for me but also no workshop / recall order either. For those like me who have heard nothing, might be worth a phone call to PCNA and have them check your VIN too.
Maybe that's why I got an email from a local dealer a few weeks ago asking if I wanted to trade in or trade up my 2013 CD ...![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Maybe that's why I got an email from a local dealer a few weeks ago asking if I wanted to trade in or trade up my 2013 CD ...
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/2015_1...nal_signed.pdf
#293
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I think this letter from CARB clarifies the whole thing. All are non-compliant
http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/2015_1...nal_signed.pdf
http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/2015_1...nal_signed.pdf
#294
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I'd not waste the effort right now if I were you. So much of this is in flux that it really is anyone's guess as to what the final result will be.
I'd wait until it starts to look like things have calmed down and then run it down or you need warranty work done and your factory warranty has expired.
I suppose the only downside to waiting is that if they ultimately come to some agreement that really does take a portion of cars out of the mix some of us could have ended up with a free warranty upgrade where you didn't. If I were a betting man though, I'd bet on all CDs being included and you'll be due the extended warranty like the rest of us.
Sucks they are yanking you around though ...
I'd wait until it starts to look like things have calmed down and then run it down or you need warranty work done and your factory warranty has expired.
I suppose the only downside to waiting is that if they ultimately come to some agreement that really does take a portion of cars out of the mix some of us could have ended up with a free warranty upgrade where you didn't. If I were a betting man though, I'd bet on all CDs being included and you'll be due the extended warranty like the rest of us.
Sucks they are yanking you around though ...
#295
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It should be noted from that CARB letter that each division (VW, Audi, Porsche) independently certified to CARB and are independently responsible to rectify the claimed violations.
If so, the "defeat" software must have been hidden even from Porsche engineers (or they knew and kept quiet).
As Gnat said, it is all in flux. All is speculation and I hope 2016 brings a speedy and perfect solution to this whole mess.
If so, the "defeat" software must have been hidden even from Porsche engineers (or they knew and kept quiet).
As Gnat said, it is all in flux. All is speculation and I hope 2016 brings a speedy and perfect solution to this whole mess.
#296
Rennlist Member
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Perfect timing for my 2013 to have a seized alternator and massive oil leak requiring dropping the engine and replacing the serpentine belt in addition to whatever caused the leak in the first place.
Ugh![banghead](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/banghead.gif)
Dealer is "well, we will try our best to make the cost reasonable". (I have 51k miles )![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
![grr](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/cussing.gif)
Sad puppy
Ugh
![banghead](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/banghead.gif)
Dealer is "well, we will try our best to make the cost reasonable". (I have 51k miles )
![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
![grr](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/cussing.gif)
Sad puppy
#297
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Perfect timing for my 2013 to have a seized alternator and massive oil leak requiring dropping the engine and replacing the serpentine belt in addition to whatever caused the leak in the first place. Ugh
Dealer is "well, we will try our best to make the cost reasonable". (I have 51k miles )![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
Sad puppy
![banghead](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/banghead.gif)
![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
![grr](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/cussing.gif)
#298
Rennlist Member
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I think this letter from CARB clarifies the whole thing. All are non-compliant
http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/2015_1...nal_signed.pdf
http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/2015_1...nal_signed.pdf
![banghead](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/banghead.gif)
I'd not waste the effort right now if I were you. So much of this is in flux that it really is anyone's guess as to what the final result will be.
I'd wait until it starts to look like things have calmed down and then run it down or you need warranty work done and your factory warranty has expired.
I suppose the only downside to waiting is that if they ultimately come to some agreement that really does take a portion of cars out of the mix some of us could have ended up with a free warranty upgrade where you didn't. If I were a betting man though, I'd bet on all CDs being included and you'll be due the extended warranty like the rest of us.
Sucks they are yanking you around though ...
I'd wait until it starts to look like things have calmed down and then run it down or you need warranty work done and your factory warranty has expired.
I suppose the only downside to waiting is that if they ultimately come to some agreement that really does take a portion of cars out of the mix some of us could have ended up with a free warranty upgrade where you didn't. If I were a betting man though, I'd bet on all CDs being included and you'll be due the extended warranty like the rest of us.
Sucks they are yanking you around though ...
![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
Perfect timing for my 2013 to have a seized alternator and massive oil leak requiring dropping the engine and replacing the serpentine belt in addition to whatever caused the leak in the first place.
Ugh![banghead](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/banghead.gif)
Dealer is "well, we will try our best to make the cost reasonable". (I have 51k miles )![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
![grr](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/cussing.gif)
Sad puppy
Ugh
![banghead](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/banghead.gif)
Dealer is "well, we will try our best to make the cost reasonable". (I have 51k miles )
![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
![grr](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/cussing.gif)
Sad puppy
#299
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The irony of this entire "emissions" scandal is that we're supposed to blame Volkswagen.
If I wanted to be a modern day tyrant or a dictator, I'd be working for the Cali Air Resources Board.
Some time ago, a bunch of second rate bureaucrats decided that auto engineers were not smart enough. Apparently, a hundred years of technological research and innovation in one of the most competitive sectors is not good enough for the high standards that our government employees expect. The demi-gods to mere mortals....
Interestingly, in the 1990s it was the CARB that first coerced auto manufacturers into developing an expensive EV program and then told them to scrap it at their own cost. How easy to waste someone's resources as long as we claim that we're only protecting everyone's resources! The demi-gods to mere mortals...
If there is one definition of Lenin-style socialism, it is the right to manage what you don't own. Telling car companies how to make cars without buying their shares is socialism. Forcing consumers to get less for their own money is socialism. But punishing a free market enterprise for trying to circumvent destructive laws enforced by arrogant taxpayer leeches is nothing but tyranny.
If I wanted to be a modern day tyrant or a dictator, I'd be working for the Cali Air Resources Board.
Some time ago, a bunch of second rate bureaucrats decided that auto engineers were not smart enough. Apparently, a hundred years of technological research and innovation in one of the most competitive sectors is not good enough for the high standards that our government employees expect. The demi-gods to mere mortals....
Interestingly, in the 1990s it was the CARB that first coerced auto manufacturers into developing an expensive EV program and then told them to scrap it at their own cost. How easy to waste someone's resources as long as we claim that we're only protecting everyone's resources! The demi-gods to mere mortals...
If there is one definition of Lenin-style socialism, it is the right to manage what you don't own. Telling car companies how to make cars without buying their shares is socialism. Forcing consumers to get less for their own money is socialism. But punishing a free market enterprise for trying to circumvent destructive laws enforced by arrogant taxpayer leeches is nothing but tyranny.
#300
RL Community Team
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Originally Posted by Rennaissance
The irony of this entire "emissions" scandal is that we're supposed to blame Volkswagen.
If I wanted to be a modern day tyrant or a dictator, I'd be working for the Cali Air Resources Board.
Some time ago, a bunch of second rate bureaucrats decided that auto engineers were not smart enough. Apparently, a hundred years of technological research and innovation in one of the most competitive sectors is not good enough for the high standards that our government employees expect. The demi-gods to mere mortals....
Interestingly, in the 1990s it was the CARB that first coerced auto manufacturers into developing an expensive EV program and then told them to scrap it at their own cost. How easy to waste someone's resources as long as we claim that we're only protecting everyone's resources! The demi-gods to mere mortals...
If there is one definition of Lenin-style socialism, it is the right to manage what you don't own. Telling car companies how to make cars without buying their shares is socialism. Forcing consumers to get less for their own money is socialism. But punishing a free market enterprise for trying to circumvent destructive laws enforced by arrogant taxpayer leeches is nothing but tyranny.
If I wanted to be a modern day tyrant or a dictator, I'd be working for the Cali Air Resources Board.
Some time ago, a bunch of second rate bureaucrats decided that auto engineers were not smart enough. Apparently, a hundred years of technological research and innovation in one of the most competitive sectors is not good enough for the high standards that our government employees expect. The demi-gods to mere mortals....
Interestingly, in the 1990s it was the CARB that first coerced auto manufacturers into developing an expensive EV program and then told them to scrap it at their own cost. How easy to waste someone's resources as long as we claim that we're only protecting everyone's resources! The demi-gods to mere mortals...
If there is one definition of Lenin-style socialism, it is the right to manage what you don't own. Telling car companies how to make cars without buying their shares is socialism. Forcing consumers to get less for their own money is socialism. But punishing a free market enterprise for trying to circumvent destructive laws enforced by arrogant taxpayer leeches is nothing but tyranny.
Demi-gods to mere mortals? Go back to your survival shelter.
There were laws. Other manufacturers seem to have met them...BMW and Merc seem to have no trouble meeting the emissions standards in the same class of vehicle. Why is that?