Vista6019

I moved to a V6 model and so far am very happy with our choice. I predicted back when the EPA announced their investigation of the 3.0 liters, that no one would come out unscathed. Unfortunately and sadly, in this case I was correct. Hell hath no fury like a Governmental agency with no budget and unlimited authority-who was embarrassed and is now out to make VW pay, whatever the cost. We would have really enjoyed our CD but have moved on.

Izzone

I sold my pepper just in time....bought rover diesels. I trade cars too often and the resale hit scared me

The rover diesels are really good...nice change from a Porsche

They will also sell you a 100K mile warranty, manufacture backed at time of sale

philg3

Hopefully, only a minor software tweak is required -- not affecting the performance and mileage. Injecting more adblue is fine with me (my 2013 consumed 5 Gal for 20Kmi). Any other outcome is a big problem, and almost certainly will result in substantial diminished value. A $1K certificate, or even cash, will no way cover us for the harm done by these idiots. I'm thinking $10K+: There may be no market for these tainted vehicles. And I thought the coolant pipe problems in the 1st generation were annoying.

And don't think that this will pass with time; it won't. Years ago, I was a proud owner of an Audi 5000 that 60 minutes featured with the unintended acceleration thesis. Turned out in the end, that there was no unintended acceleration, but damage was already done, and values plummeted.

And for those of you who have CD's on the boat or at the dock, I know you really want it -- I like mine, and the only thing better than a new "P" car is a new puppy. That said, don't take delivery -- at least until the issue is settled. Fortunately, for those who can't control themselves, Porsche is doing a public service by placing deliveries on hold.

Up until Friday, my 2013 was in the clear, but I still thought there might be some minor diminished value associated with this screwup -- guilt by association. Since ours have the adblue, and different software versus the smaller VW engine, I'm hoping for the best. While there isn't definitive information now, it appears that the software on the Cayennes, wasn't as fraudulent / or flagrant as the smaller engine situation.

fincher

I have a 2012 Touareg TDI. Best ride I've owned. 74k. Was waiting/hoping for Macan diesel to come here. Now that is unlikely.

So, I am going to continue driving my TDI. The value hit has already happened for the most part. For those who recently bought, it's another story.

As others have said, software update Is likely tied to AdBlue usage. I truly believe VW did not knowingly deceive with the 3.0...do think it did with the 2.0.

Drive more, worry less.

mdrobc1213

Mine is at Port and will sit there until the fix is found and approved. That is the worse part of this as it is unknown how long that will take. Weeks? Months? Also dealer says even though fix is likely only software on the 3.0L and not engine or exhaust modifications (Possibly adding catalytic converters); any fix now will require the vehicle to re-go thru EPA certification and re-classification which will be the prolonged part most likely. That will probably be a back and forth process as VW produces a fix...they test the fix and come back with more questions and data before agreeing to a solution. And we haven't even begun to talk about the fine part nore the fact that now all the VW diesels back to 2009 is it are now affected. Don't see that ending anytime soon and will most definitely cause a hit to residuals of the diesels...can't see how it wouldn't.
Yeah saw that..VW diesel values have dropped and are still falling in some areas as some folks are trying to trade out of their cars instead of waiting for the recall/fix and rumors of a VW by back.

f4 plt

Maybe it is time to put some common sense into this subject. Yes maybe the diesels are out of compliance with some artificially set standards, but how many non diesels are also out of compliance with one or another artificially set government standard. AND in those states that do not annually check emissions how many cars on the road maintain the original "clean" level of emissions. I won't even talk trucks, aircraft or large ship all of which emit emissions. So we can get down to electric vehicles ( can't include hybrids as they emit emissions whenever their gas engine is engaged).

So electric vehicles whose pluses are that they do not emit, and are quiet. The negatives would be very limited range, in ability to haul a load AND oh by the way maybe they are not so clean if you add the emissions from the power plant that produces the electricity that you charge your electric vehicle with.

The bottom line is it seems that once again we have allowed some bureaucrats under the guise of "doing good" to legislate out of control.

And to the argument that VW lied and hid the facts, OK I will acknowledge that but I would then include in the argument the fact that GM lied and hid the facts concerning the faulty ignition switches and oh by the way that caused the DEATH of at least 24 people. Or that gas pedal item with Toyota and on it goes. The bottom line is the world is not perfect and their is a cost to enjoying our modern society with its conveniences and while we should always look for cleaner energy sources right now fossil fuels are what makes our world run

sorry for the length and semi rant.

philg3

There is a distinction between the GM mess and the VW one. GM had some incompetent engineers that attempted to squeeze a few pennies out of the cost of the ignition switch, while VW intentionally wrote software to deceive the regulators and their customers. Furthermore, they misrepresented their products , inducing customers to purchase their products based upon manufactured mistruths.

Quite frankly, the culprits should be criminally prosecuted, as they intentionally stole from their customers, and their competitors. I saw last week that VW took on a big load of debt to get them through this mess, but I doubt there's enough money there to fully compensate their customers who were harmed, not to mention many governments that want their take, and still have a going concern.

VW's actions demonstrate true contempt for their customers / regulators -- manufactured this problem intentionally, and now will pay the price. There is no defense for their actions.

Apparently, this fraud has been going on for 6 years as VW was raking in the cash, taking unfair advantage of it's customers / regulators / competitors. Again, there's no defense here.

mtnrat

THIS.

mtnrat

NOT THIS.

gnat

How dare you! We are having a nice discussion about how Porsche should buy back all our Cayennes. Ideally with a bit of interest too!



I don't think you know as much about the two issues as you think you do.

First and foremost, the VW issue hasn't killed anyone. So there is a mark in VW's favor off the bat.

Secondly it wasn't the engineers that were pinching pennies, it was management. They found the documents where the engineers raised their concerns and were subsequently ignored. So yes upper management did know about it and covered it. Furthermore on the VW side it is becoming clear that it was not some rogue engineer that did this but management, just like the GM issue.

Thirdly, the GM issue actually caused issues that directly impacted the customer in a negative way while the VW issue actually improved things for the customer. I don't know of any reports of people taking their VWs to the dealer complaining about getting too good of a MPG average. GM customers, on the other hand, did take their cars in complaining and the issue was downplayed and even ignored in some cases. The customers that weren't ignored were told to do silly things like not use a key ring and were never informed that when the ignition is off the airbags won't deploy.

So yes there are striking similarities in how the two issues came about. Where they diverge is the impact to the safety of the customer. This fiasco is indeed comparable to the GM fiasco*, but at the end of the day the GM one was worse in that it can be demonstrably shown to have caused harm.

* GM did some stupid things and should feel some pain for it, but 12 deaths? Really? It certainly sucks if you are connected to one of the 12, but 12 is not a significant number when discussing car related injuries or fatalities. It never ceases to amaze me how society gets all worked up over such insignificant numbers

visitador

For all our discussions here, we are speculating one way or another as to what VW and EPA/CALB will agree to do to get the 3.0 V6 back into compliance. It seems the matter may not be solved until later in 2016.

In the meantime, I know that there seems to be two camps around here: There is a realized loss or nothing has happened. I am in the camp of realized loss. We usually put a number on what we have. If our investments go higher, we spend more even if we haven't sold anything. When our investments go lower, we tend to stay at home and save. The CD is not an investment but still signifies an asset that we own.

The VW emissions issue has changed how we perceived our CDs. Maybe some of us were thinking of purchasing it after the end of a lease. That is gone. Maybe some of us were thinking of a figure to trade in or sell for a new toy. That figure is lower. Even if you say you'll keep your CD until the end of time, you know that the piece of metal is no longer as valuable as before.

I keep thinking how can VW/POA compensate for that loss. I think one way to keep the value up as before, as some has suggested, is to extend the warranty to 10 years and thrown in wear and tear maintenance (like BMW). If an owner has purchased the maintenance plan, give him a refund. Also, that warranty/maintenance should be transferrable. That would show VW/POA is really concerned about its customers while the customers feel their loss of value has been minimized.

Another way may be to warrant a trade in value for another VW/Audi/Porsche car, be either new or CPO. Maybe set it up in a table so that the trade in values are the same or better than retail. I think accountants can easily set such a table.

Well, that's just me thinking.

philg3

Thanks for the education -- got it. VW did us all a favor -- "actually improved things for the customer" as you say. Not sure most CD owners feel that their lives have been enhanced by VW's fraudulent behavior, and the resulting uncertainty of their vehicle investment, and even will they be able to register their vehicle upon renewal.

gnat

Way to miss the point Phil. Congrats on that.

Both companies knew what was going on. Both companies lied and covered up. Only one's actions directly threatened the physical safety of the drivers/passengers.

VW did wrong and should be punished for it, but trying to claim the two cases are not comparable or that the VW case is somehow worse is as laughable as the idea that VAG should be on the hook for buying back all the TDI cars.

Arguing loss of value over this is silly. Only a few cars in the world don't immediately lose value as soon as their bought and none of them are mass marketed/manufactured cars which is the category every TDI based car falls into.

The only possible argument you can make there is that diesels have historically depreciated slower, but if you've been watching that market for the last 20+ years you'd see that even without this mess the depreciation curve was getting bigger for diesels over the last 5 years. If you understood the market then you'd understand that it is a simple matter of supply/demand and that diesels gaining market share was always going to increase their depreciation curve.

This fiasco and the immediate depreciation hit will blow over as soon as the uneducated stop panicking over things they don't understand. In the long run one of two things are going to happen.

The first option is that the public ultimately doesn't care and diesels continue to make headway onto our roads. In that case you are going to continue to see the resale value drop and eventually they should be on par with gas cars.

The second is that the public freaks out and stops buying diesels which will cause the MFGs to stop bringing them over (or at least drastically reduce the options). In that case there will be an initial plunge in value as the ninnies freak out and sell their "evil" diesels and flood the market. Those that stay in the market will be the ones that actually understand diesels and buy them for their real benefits as opposed to for marketing hype and feeling good. Ultimately as the ninnies are shaken out of the market the value of a used diesel will stabilize and return to the historical depreciation curve. This will take some time though as there will be a glut of "unwanted" diesels for sometime to come.

I personally think the second option is the more likely of the two scenarios, but that is more to blame on our idiotic shortsighted society than VW themselves. VW just made the mistake of giving them the ammunition.

VW did wrong, there is no question. VW needs to fix it as best as is reasonable. All this "sky is falling" freaking out people are doing before there is any useful information is just flat stupid though.

f4 plt

Bottom line for me is that my wife and I are still completely happy with our CD's and plan to keep them for the long haul. Only exception is if it is mandated that a software re-flash is required and that reduces mileage and performance as our see lots of long distance thus the mileage and lots of towing thus the enjoyable torque. I think as far as the Cayennes and their sisters in the VW group all will just go away after lots of hand wrangling, perhaps not so with the smaller non "ad Blu" supplemented engines.

RobC4sX51

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^