v10rick

If the residual value is below market, at the end of the lease, a buyout should be a good deal. Negotiating power is lost when when trying to terminate a lease early.
Since this is a business expense the advantage is unclear...only your accountant knows for certain.

MJG911

Now that I know what they did to me with the lease, I don't really care about the tax advantage. I bought 2 cars that day, and they were my 2nd and 3rd vehicles from this dealership, and to know they took advantage of me because I wasn't clear on the workings of the lease calculations pisses me off. I'm done with this dealership now. The next porsche will come from the other local dealer.

mdrobc1213

YES that's the rub and 1,000 question here. My dealer says no real date yet on fix or release of the stop hold from latest Porsche update to dealers. Most has focused on offering the extended warranty and answering questions concerning what to tell customers calling. Still nothing for pending owners who ordered cars or have cars on the doc. GM suspects no fix/release in 1st half of 2016 and says they are unable to order any more '16 CD's in the system...they've all been removed by Porsche they suspect for the rest of the '16 MY. That sucks.

As for EPA and their demands; they can only guess but say given the fact that CARB is also involved and the extent of the violations; the EPA may require cars be flagged so that if the patch is not applied then cars that don't meet emissions requirements (aka the fix) may not be registered or allowed to register. All this is up in the air as emissions is usually a state-state issue however the overall emissions guidelines are federal one and if state are at a loss of highway funding and such if they allow the CD's to stay out of compliance, then CD owners may see themselves forced into compliance or their cars not allowed to be registered and loss of tags, etc. Most states renew either annually or bi-annually so I can see how they could take that hard line and force cars to update out there either by the owners choice or they catch you when you go for new tags cause you're car is flagged.

Nothing is for certain at this point however I guess as they [dealership] say they are still mostly in the dark as to the future of the cars and when the ban will lift and what other actions will occur next other than the newest warranty issue release/decision. The EPA has extended the deadline for VW thru mid-Jan tho for Porsche to provide more info on the proposed fix and emission data to the EPA's [the latest I've seen online from the US/CARB end of this]. Guess a long wait for everyone involved I suspect is in store.

JRoach

Is it time for Mueller to step down as well? He told us all in the beginning that Porsche was not a culprit. Given that they did a stop sale and pulled the car from the website it looks like he was wrong or can't figure out how to tell CARB that its ok. Either way, hardly stellar leadership.

Would it have been a better approach to release the extended warranty at the same time as the fix? Does anybody else feel like: what have you done for me lately? Does anybody see Ken Feinberg as a move towards "I want to help the Porsche owner" and brand? Handling the PR is more important than the fix in these cases. Instead of working towards a swift resolution this has now become
a 'stall' under the guise of thoroughness in order to shake the momentum.

Also, I noticed that "Car Gurus" has new 2015 and 16 CD's for sale...curious. The inventory on the website for the one dealer I looked at matched the Car Gurus info. I thought these were 'banned'.

JRoach

FYI:

ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...ssions_scandal

Resale value:

ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...ssions_scandal

As of 26 October, the resale value of affected model cars in the US was down from 5 to nearly 16 percent depending on model as compiled by Black Book and Kelley Blue Book based on used car auction prices, the volume of which was also down.

VW Action Plan (maybe a plan for the VW's has been accepted):

ref: http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/newsrelease.php?id=779

Dear Mr. Geanacopoulos:

As a result of Volkswagen Group of America’s (VW) continued submission of additional significant information and data to the California Air Resources Board (CARB) as part of VW’s proposed 2.0L influenced emission recall plan (Title 13, Cal. Code Regs. § 2113) --- including information VW submitted in writing on December 14, 2015, and verbally as recently as December 16, 2015 --- CARB plans to act on your proposed 2.0L influenced emission recall plan on or before January 14, 2016.

Mr. Stuart Johnson, on behalf of VW, discussed this issue with me earlier this week. Please confirm in writing to me, no later than noon Pacific Time, Monday, December 21, 2015, that VW has no objection to CARB’s planned response date of on or before January 14, 2016.

As you know, VW submitted a December 15, 2015, request for an extension to submit VW’s supplemental, proposed 2.0L influenced emission recall plan to CARB. CARB will also respond to this extension request on or before January 14, 2016.

If you have any questions, I can be reached at (626) 450-6150.

Sincerely,

Annette Hebert, Chief
Emissions Compliance, Automotive Regulations, and Science Division

Consumer Reports evaluates likely performance issues with update:

Ref: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...ssions-recall-

Did Skirting of the Emissions Rules Result in Better Fuel Economy and Performance? It appears so. In response to the scandal, Consumer Reports conducted new testing of 2015 and 2011 Volkswagen TDI diesel vehicles in this “cheat” mode to assess fuel economy and performance. We found a noticeable decline in fuel economy for both models. Our testing also showed reduced acceleration with the 2011 model, which is equipped with a lower-tech diesel filtration system.

shizzle

That's strange. I got an email from Porsche Canada back on Dec 18. I'm still waiting to hear back if I'll get a refund for having bought an extended warranty though....

visitador

I think this letter from CARB clarifies the whole thing. All are non-compliant

http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/2015_1...nal_signed.pdf

stronbl

Thanks for posting the CARB doc. It appears there is a difference of explanation / interpretation between PCNA and CARB as to affected vehicles. I will check back in with PCNA and reference this CARB letter and ask why they believe my CD is not affected. This continues to be an exercise in guessing into the future.

gnat

I'd not waste the effort right now if I were you. So much of this is in flux that it really is anyone's guess as to what the final result will be.

I'd wait until it starts to look like things have calmed down and then run it down or you need warranty work done and your factory warranty has expired.

I suppose the only downside to waiting is that if they ultimately come to some agreement that really does take a portion of cars out of the mix some of us could have ended up with a free warranty upgrade where you didn't. If I were a betting man though, I'd bet on all CDs being included and you'll be due the extended warranty like the rest of us.

Sucks they are yanking you around though ...

visitador

It should be noted from that CARB letter that each division (VW, Audi, Porsche) independently certified to CARB and are independently responsible to rectify the claimed violations.

If so, the "defeat" software must have been hidden even from Porsche engineers (or they knew and kept quiet).

As Gnat said, it is all in flux. All is speculation and I hope 2016 brings a speedy and perfect solution to this whole mess.

tmario

Perfect timing for my 2013 to have a seized alternator and massive oil leak requiring dropping the engine and replacing the serpentine belt in addition to whatever caused the leak in the first place.

Ugh

Dealer is "well, we will try our best to make the cost reasonable". (I have 51k miles )

Sad puppy

gnat

That I would fight tooth and nail on. When was your build date?

mdrobc1213

Yes ALL are non-compliant and must be independently certified. CARB seems to be holding all the cards at this point. Haven't even gotten to the EPA part of certification yet. A real mess.
Hope they would give all a warranty when this is sorted out but who knows at this point. I don't even think Porsche knows what they are doing yet and how they will end up resolving this as the EPA/CARB piece is still pending and up in the air. No doubt this won't get fixed in 30-60-90 days as my dealership GM recently told me on my '16 CD sitting at dock. I asked for a sitrep and he was told by Porsche NA no lift of the sales ban is eminent until this is resolved and Porsche is sure the process is working to the EPA/CARBs satisfaction=no short term solution. I inquired about ordering a '17 CD then and was told by Porsche NA that also was still up in the air as to whether the CD would be returning as a '17 model depending on how all of the regulatory/fine/retrofit situation pans out. But says PCNA alluded to the fact that for a '16 model the CD's are gone. Removed from all configurators, blocked from sale for the most part and fate of remaining inventory in the US is still in question. Many dealerships I hear are turning them into loaners instead of ordering new ones to replace their aging loaner fleets [those who offer Porsche loaners for servicing and repairs]. But as we move into the new year..hope of getting my CD released and delivered is fading. They've offered to order me a new '16 model (S, GTS, Turbo, Turbo S, or v6) to my specs at this point as its the best chance of getting a car at this point.

Wow...sooo sorry to hear that. Hopefully you'll get that paper in the mail and warranty notification. That should cover this issue right?

Rennaissance

The irony of this entire "emissions" scandal is that we're supposed to blame Volkswagen.

If I wanted to be a modern day tyrant or a dictator, I'd be working for the Cali Air Resources Board.

Some time ago, a bunch of second rate bureaucrats decided that auto engineers were not smart enough. Apparently, a hundred years of technological research and innovation in one of the most competitive sectors is not good enough for the high standards that our government employees expect. The demi-gods to mere mortals....

Interestingly, in the 1990s it was the CARB that first coerced auto manufacturers into developing an expensive EV program and then told them to scrap it at their own cost. How easy to waste someone's resources as long as we claim that we're only protecting everyone's resources! The demi-gods to mere mortals...

If there is one definition of Lenin-style socialism, it is the right to manage what you don't own. Telling car companies how to make cars without buying their shares is socialism. Forcing consumers to get less for their own money is socialism. But punishing a free market enterprise for trying to circumvent destructive laws enforced by arrogant taxpayer leeches is nothing but tyranny.

Needsdecaf

Please get out of here with this crap. Is there beaucracy in government? Of course. A lot. But your rhetoric snacks of tin foil hat BS. Do you think emissions would have gotten to where they are now without government mandates? Not a chance. Do you think cars would have been as crash-worthy? No freaking way.

Demi-gods to mere mortals? Go back to your survival shelter.

There were laws. Other manufacturers seem to have met them...BMW and Merc seem to have no trouble meeting the emissions standards in the same class of vehicle. Why is that?