Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue
12-22-2016, 04:24 PM
#2521
Just in:
A federal judge said on Thursday that Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) has reached an agreement in principle to provide "substantial compensation" to the owners of about 80,000 3.0 liter polluting diesel vehicles, a key hurdle to resolve the German automaker's emissions scandal.
U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer did not disclose the amount of owner compensation, which is not included in a $1 billion settlement announced earlier this week between VW and U.S. regulators. Half of the compensation will be paid at the time Breyer gives final approval of the settlement.
Earlier this week, Volkswagen reached the $1 billion settlement with U.S. regulators, offering to buy back about 20,000 of the vehicles, fix the remaining 60,000 and pay $225 million into an environmental trust fund to offset the vehicles' excess emissions.
The settlement covered luxury VW, Audi and Porsche vehicles with 3.0-liter engines. With the agreement, Volkswagen would spend as much as $17.5 billion in the United States to resolve claims from owners as well as federal and state regulators over polluting diesel vehicles in addition to compensation for the 3.0 liter owners.
Volkswagen spokeswoman Jeannine Ginivan said the automaker was pleased with the agreement in principle on payments to owners, but said details will remain confidential for now.
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Breyer said the final agreement must be filed with the court by Jan. 31, and he expected to hold a hearing to approve the deal in February.
Volkswagen, the world's No. 2 automaker, could still spend billions of dollars more to resolve a U.S. Justice Department criminal investigation and federal and state environmental claims and come under oversight by a federal monitor.
It is possible a deal could be reached before the end of the Obama administration, said sources briefed on the matter.
A federal judge said on Thursday that Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) has reached an agreement in principle to provide "substantial compensation" to the owners of about 80,000 3.0 liter polluting diesel vehicles, a key hurdle to resolve the German automaker's emissions scandal.
U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer did not disclose the amount of owner compensation, which is not included in a $1 billion settlement announced earlier this week between VW and U.S. regulators. Half of the compensation will be paid at the time Breyer gives final approval of the settlement.
Earlier this week, Volkswagen reached the $1 billion settlement with U.S. regulators, offering to buy back about 20,000 of the vehicles, fix the remaining 60,000 and pay $225 million into an environmental trust fund to offset the vehicles' excess emissions.
The settlement covered luxury VW, Audi and Porsche vehicles with 3.0-liter engines. With the agreement, Volkswagen would spend as much as $17.5 billion in the United States to resolve claims from owners as well as federal and state regulators over polluting diesel vehicles in addition to compensation for the 3.0 liter owners.
Volkswagen spokeswoman Jeannine Ginivan said the automaker was pleased with the agreement in principle on payments to owners, but said details will remain confidential for now.
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Breyer said the final agreement must be filed with the court by Jan. 31, and he expected to hold a hearing to approve the deal in February.
Volkswagen, the world's No. 2 automaker, could still spend billions of dollars more to resolve a U.S. Justice Department criminal investigation and federal and state environmental claims and come under oversight by a federal monitor.
It is possible a deal could be reached before the end of the Obama administration, said sources briefed on the matter.
12-22-2016, 04:26 PM
#2522
Also, it appears word got to the court that vehicles were being intentionally stripped and damaged before they were turned in.
A federal judge warned Volkswagen owners not to strip parts out of their diesel vehicles before attempting to sell them back to the automaker through the company's emissions settlement.
U.S. District Court Judge Charles Breyer's warning Thursday came after reports on the automotive blog Jalopnik of a Cincinnati man who "completely stripped" his 2010 VW Golf diesel car before attempting to qualify for the buyback.
The man ripped out the "doors, seats, hood, bumpers, hatch and a big portion of the interior" before trying to turn in his vehicle, according to Jalopnik. VW rejected his attempt to qualify for the buyback, which would have been worth anywhere from $14,897 to $15,557 for the typical 2010 VW Golf diesel.
U.S. District Court Judge Charles Breyer's warning Thursday came after reports on the automotive blog Jalopnik of a Cincinnati man who "completely stripped" his 2010 VW Golf diesel car before attempting to qualify for the buyback.
The man ripped out the "doors, seats, hood, bumpers, hatch and a big portion of the interior" before trying to turn in his vehicle, according to Jalopnik. VW rejected his attempt to qualify for the buyback, which would have been worth anywhere from $14,897 to $15,557 for the typical 2010 VW Golf diesel.
Last edited by Mallens; 12-22-2016 at 05:24 PM. Reason: changing to quote
12-22-2016, 05:38 PM
#2524
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm glad they shut down that jacksss. People need to think before they pull that crap.
When the hell are we going to see figures??????
When the hell are we going to see figures??????
12-22-2016, 05:40 PM
#2525
What, we have to wait until Jan 31 to find out more details and what " substantial compensation " is?! What a joke!
[QUOTE]According to the civil complaint against Volkswagen filed by the Justice Department on behalf of EPA on January 4, 2016, and amended on October 7, 2016, Volkswagen allegedly equipped its 3.0 liter diesel vehicles with illegal software that detects when the car is being tested for compliance with EPA or California emissions standards and turns on required emissions controls only during that testing process. During normal driving conditions, the software renders these emissions control systems inoperative or reduces their effectiveness, resulting in increased emissions. This is known as a defeat device. By using a defeat device, these cars meet emissions standards in the laboratory, but emit up to nine times or more above the EPA-compliant levels for NOx during normal on-road driving conditions. The Clean Air Act requires manufacturers to certify to EPA that vehicles will meet federal emissions standards. Vehicles with defeat devices cannot be certified.
Because Volkswagen cannot modify the affected 2009 through 2012 Volkswagen Touareg and Audi Q7 generation 1 diesel vehicles to meet EPA-certified exhaust emissions standards, the settlement requires Volkswagen to offer owners of generation 1 vehicles the option to have the company buy back the car and to offer lessees a lease cancellation at no cost. If a plan is proposed by Volkswagen and approved by EPA and CARB to substantially reduce emissions from the generation 1 vehicles, Volkswagen will also have to offer that as an option for consumers.
For the generation 2 vehicles, Volkswagen will recall and fix these vehicles so they meet their certified exhaust emissions standards, after the technical solution is approved by regulators. If after extensive testing the solution does not perform as expected and is not approved, Volkswagen must offer to buy back the vehicles. In that case, the company can also seek approval of an emissions modification plan to substantially reduce emissions and, if approved, can offer that as an additional option for generation 2 vehicles.
Under the terms of the settlement, Volkswagen must achieve an overall recall rate of at least 85% for each of the generation 1 and generation 2 vehicles recall programs or pay additional sums into the mitigation trust fund. The buyback and lease termination program for generation 1 vehicles will begin within 30 days following court approval of the settlement. Vehicle modifications will become available to eligible owners and lessees once the modifications are approved by regulators./QUOTE]
12-22-2016, 06:11 PM
#2526
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[QUOTE=Mallens;13831012]Depends what generation you are. Gen 1 will be hearing from VAG within 30 days of the settlement, Gen 2... who knows the way I read it.
Gen 1 Gen 2 it doesn't matter as it's still a joke! Total pharse especially for all of us Gen 2 owners. There was nothing new at all stated today except for saying we'll get more details the end of Jan! What a political hack Breyer is imo. So much for getting these ugly polluting vehicles off the roads asap judge!
According to the civil complaint against Volkswagen filed by the Justice Department on behalf of EPA on January 4, 2016, and amended on October 7, 2016, Volkswagen allegedly equipped its 3.0 liter diesel vehicles with illegal software that detects when the car is being tested for compliance with EPA or California emissions standards and turns on required emissions controls only during that testing process. During normal driving conditions, the software renders these emissions control systems inoperative or reduces their effectiveness, resulting in increased emissions. This is known as a defeat device. By using a defeat device, these cars meet emissions standards in the laboratory, but emit up to nine times or more above the EPA-compliant levels for NOx during normal on-road driving conditions. The Clean Air Act requires manufacturers to certify to EPA that vehicles will meet federal emissions standards. Vehicles with defeat devices cannot be certified.
Because Volkswagen cannot modify the affected 2009 through 2012 Volkswagen Touareg and Audi Q7 generation 1 diesel vehicles to meet EPA-certified exhaust emissions standards, the settlement requires Volkswagen to offer owners of generation 1 vehicles the option to have the company buy back the car and to offer lessees a lease cancellation at no cost. If a plan is proposed by Volkswagen and approved by EPA and CARB to substantially reduce emissions from the generation 1 vehicles, Volkswagen will also have to offer that as an option for consumers.
For the generation 2 vehicles, Volkswagen will recall and fix these vehicles so they meet their certified exhaust emissions standards, after the technical solution is approved by regulators. If after extensive testing the solution does not perform as expected and is not approved, Volkswagen must offer to buy back the vehicles. In that case, the company can also seek approval of an emissions modification plan to substantially reduce emissions and, if approved, can offer that as an additional option for generation 2 vehicles.
Under the terms of the settlement, Volkswagen must achieve an overall recall rate of at least 85% for each of the generation 1 and generation 2 vehicles recall programs or pay additional sums into the mitigation trust fund. The buyback and lease termination program for generation 1 vehicles will begin within 30 days following court approval of the settlement. Vehicle modifications will become available to eligible owners and lessees once the modifications are approved by regulators./QUOTE]
Because Volkswagen cannot modify the affected 2009 through 2012 Volkswagen Touareg and Audi Q7 generation 1 diesel vehicles to meet EPA-certified exhaust emissions standards, the settlement requires Volkswagen to offer owners of generation 1 vehicles the option to have the company buy back the car and to offer lessees a lease cancellation at no cost. If a plan is proposed by Volkswagen and approved by EPA and CARB to substantially reduce emissions from the generation 1 vehicles, Volkswagen will also have to offer that as an option for consumers.
For the generation 2 vehicles, Volkswagen will recall and fix these vehicles so they meet their certified exhaust emissions standards, after the technical solution is approved by regulators. If after extensive testing the solution does not perform as expected and is not approved, Volkswagen must offer to buy back the vehicles. In that case, the company can also seek approval of an emissions modification plan to substantially reduce emissions and, if approved, can offer that as an additional option for generation 2 vehicles.
Under the terms of the settlement, Volkswagen must achieve an overall recall rate of at least 85% for each of the generation 1 and generation 2 vehicles recall programs or pay additional sums into the mitigation trust fund. The buyback and lease termination program for generation 1 vehicles will begin within 30 days following court approval of the settlement. Vehicle modifications will become available to eligible owners and lessees once the modifications are approved by regulators./QUOTE]
12-22-2016, 07:16 PM
#2527
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Even worse
It is even worse than having to wait until February 2017. This is from Reuters:
U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer did not disclose the amount of owner compensation, which is not included in a $1 billion settlement announced earlier this week between VW and U.S. regulators. Half of the compensation will be paid at the time Breyer gives final approval of the settlement. Some fixes for the 3.0 liters may not approved until 2018, Breyer said.
Breyer said the final agreement must be filed with the court by Jan. 31, and he expects to hold a Feb. 14 hearing to approve the deal.
So, we will not get the full amount paid, soon. In 2018, my 2013 CD will be 6 years old. What a shame for the judge allowing to keep the cars on the road for such a long time. So, either there is a harm, then they should go immediately, or there is none, then the whole fines should have been lower.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-vo...-idUSKBN14B28G
U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer did not disclose the amount of owner compensation, which is not included in a $1 billion settlement announced earlier this week between VW and U.S. regulators. Half of the compensation will be paid at the time Breyer gives final approval of the settlement. Some fixes for the 3.0 liters may not approved until 2018, Breyer said.
Breyer said the final agreement must be filed with the court by Jan. 31, and he expects to hold a Feb. 14 hearing to approve the deal.
So, we will not get the full amount paid, soon. In 2018, my 2013 CD will be 6 years old. What a shame for the judge allowing to keep the cars on the road for such a long time. So, either there is a harm, then they should go immediately, or there is none, then the whole fines should have been lower.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-vo...-idUSKBN14B28G
12-22-2016, 08:44 PM
#2529
Former Lessee
My '13 CD lease expired in March of 2016. I had an option to purchase @ $41,300. Being in CA, it was unclear to me that the vehicle would ever be able to meet emission standards, and because of the whole sordid mess, the value of the vehicle at that time was very difficult to assess, although it certainly had decreased. I felt the only prudent thing to do was turn the car in even though I would have liked to have purchased it.
Just as I had a lease obligation not to waste their asset, I believe that obligation was mutual. Porsche effectively eliminated my option to purchase by illegally devaluing the residual value. They denied me the benefit of my bargain. When I asked them to adjust the purchase price at the time, they refused.
I don't see any reference to expired leases in the Court releases. Does anyone have any insight on this? If Porsche will fight a war of attrition with the current owners, my guess is that they will surely stonewall my class of "buyers".
Just as I had a lease obligation not to waste their asset, I believe that obligation was mutual. Porsche effectively eliminated my option to purchase by illegally devaluing the residual value. They denied me the benefit of my bargain. When I asked them to adjust the purchase price at the time, they refused.
I don't see any reference to expired leases in the Court releases. Does anyone have any insight on this? If Porsche will fight a war of attrition with the current owners, my guess is that they will surely stonewall my class of "buyers".
12-22-2016, 09:08 PM
#2530
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by dlchasen
My '13 CD lease expired in March of 2016. I had an option to purchase @ $41,300. Being in CA, it was unclear to me that the vehicle would ever be able to meet emission standards, and because of the whole sordid mess, the value of the vehicle at that time was very difficult to assess, although it certainly had decreased. I felt the only prudent thing to do was turn the car in even though I would have liked to have purchased it.
Just as I had a lease obligation not to waste their asset, I believe that obligation was mutual. Porsche effectively eliminated my option to purchase by illegally devaluing the residual value. They denied me the benefit of my bargain. When I asked them to adjust the purchase price at the time, they refused.
I don't see any reference to expired leases in the Court releases. Does anyone have any insight on this? If Porsche will fight a war of attrition with the current owners, my guess is that they will surely stonewall my class of "buyers".
Just as I had a lease obligation not to waste their asset, I believe that obligation was mutual. Porsche effectively eliminated my option to purchase by illegally devaluing the residual value. They denied me the benefit of my bargain. When I asked them to adjust the purchase price at the time, they refused.
I don't see any reference to expired leases in the Court releases. Does anyone have any insight on this? If Porsche will fight a war of attrition with the current owners, my guess is that they will surely stonewall my class of "buyers".
12-23-2016, 12:05 AM
#2531
Instructor
You have not ended your pain, you are still in the boat with Porsche. A company that has barely communicated to you about this issue, has pushed blame to its "engine supplier" and left you hanging for more than 15 months, all with an extended warranty. Good luck with the Macan, I am sure you got a really good deal.
12-23-2016, 12:54 AM
#2532
Rennlist Member
It is even worse than having to wait until February 2017. This is from Reuters:
U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer did not disclose the amount of owner compensation, which is not included in a $1 billion settlement announced earlier this week between VW and U.S. regulators. Half of the compensation will be paid at the time Breyer gives final approval of the settlement. Some fixes for the 3.0 liters may not approved until 2018, Breyer said.
Breyer said the final agreement must be filed with the court by Jan. 31, and he expects to hold a Feb. 14 hearing to approve the deal.
So, we will not get the full amount paid, soon. In 2018, my 2013 CD will be 6 years old. What a shame for the judge allowing to keep the cars on the road for such a long time. So, either there is a harm, then they should go immediately, or there is none, then the whole fines should have been lower.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-vo...-idUSKBN14B28G
U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer did not disclose the amount of owner compensation, which is not included in a $1 billion settlement announced earlier this week between VW and U.S. regulators. Half of the compensation will be paid at the time Breyer gives final approval of the settlement. Some fixes for the 3.0 liters may not approved until 2018, Breyer said.
Breyer said the final agreement must be filed with the court by Jan. 31, and he expects to hold a Feb. 14 hearing to approve the deal.
So, we will not get the full amount paid, soon. In 2018, my 2013 CD will be 6 years old. What a shame for the judge allowing to keep the cars on the road for such a long time. So, either there is a harm, then they should go immediately, or there is none, then the whole fines should have been lower.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-vo...-idUSKBN14B28G
And do we have to wait until a final fix to get the second half of the compensation? Why is that... incentive to sign up?
12-23-2016, 02:01 AM
#2534
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I've been treated fairly at both dealerships - no real complaints. It's certainly MUCH less expensive to get an oil change on the Lexus though.. and they have a very nice waiting room with lunch provided.
12-23-2016, 02:03 AM
#2535
I was hoping that the details would be out by now, as I'm thinking about whether it makes sense to buy a used Cayenne diesel. Sounds like I need to wait until the dust settles on the specifics. I've asked a couple of sellers and in neither case did they think their vehicle (both 2013 CDs) were involved.