"Flying Dutchman or any of the trained Aero Beetle GT3 boys" vs. FIAT Challenge
03-06-2012, 01:32 PM
#258
Jero,
Something is not right on that dyno chart. The 2010 GT3 RS revs to 8,500rpm, not 8,000 rpm, so it is not showing all the power range.
Additionally, the GT3 engine loosens up in the first 5,000 miles, and gets on the sweet spot from 10,000 miles and up. There are plenty of dynos posted on 3.8 RS and the range is in between 425-435whp with no ECU tuning, bone stock drivetrains.
The race weight is pretty high too, 3,420 lbs, this is supposed to be the minimum race weight (with an almost empty fuel tank). For reference, I'm listing my Fiat at 3,151 lbs, and my Fiat is not 300 lbs lighter than an Aero Beetle.
You'll need to do one or all of the suggestions I posted to make it fine for TTS, but you will be running Porsche 996/997 Turbo weight, and 2007 GT3 power, no chance for 1:34s with such setup, or 2:18s at Sebring either, no matter who drives.
Something is not right on that dyno chart. The 2010 GT3 RS revs to 8,500rpm, not 8,000 rpm, so it is not showing all the power range.
Additionally, the GT3 engine loosens up in the first 5,000 miles, and gets on the sweet spot from 10,000 miles and up. There are plenty of dynos posted on 3.8 RS and the range is in between 425-435whp with no ECU tuning, bone stock drivetrains.
The race weight is pretty high too, 3,420 lbs, this is supposed to be the minimum race weight (with an almost empty fuel tank). For reference, I'm listing my Fiat at 3,151 lbs, and my Fiat is not 300 lbs lighter than an Aero Beetle.
You'll need to do one or all of the suggestions I posted to make it fine for TTS, but you will be running Porsche 996/997 Turbo weight, and 2007 GT3 power, no chance for 1:34s with such setup, or 2:18s at Sebring either, no matter who drives.
It's close enough that I have wrestled with getting an exhaust system because the loss of weight would put me out of TTS.
I still think 1:34's at HMS is doable on Hoosiers in my car. 2:18's at Sebring no way. But, for MY car the track record in TTS is 2:20 which on the right day on Hoosiers is doable.
03-06-2012, 01:40 PM
#259
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Nothing yet, I'm waiting for any Aero Beetle to step up, no takers so far. They have suggested I go back to my stock mufflers, detune my Fiat, put back the skinny wheels, put back my stock boulevard suspension, and still no takers.
I suggested the place (Sebring in 25 days), the rules, and still no takers. I'm running Sebring with NASA anyway (it would be the first time I can have Sebring with open track), and given the multitude that will sign up, I will run A6 for 2 sessions to try to shoot for the TTU class record, before the Fiat goes back to the shop for cosmetic TSB updates.
I even included a mini-challenge on 140 treadwear street tires against a Twin Turbocharged Aero Beetle, nothing yet.
Would you man up on their behalf and represent them? what about a Smurfette vs. Fiat mini-challenge?
I suggested the place (Sebring in 25 days), the rules, and still no takers. I'm running Sebring with NASA anyway (it would be the first time I can have Sebring with open track), and given the multitude that will sign up, I will run A6 for 2 sessions to try to shoot for the TTU class record, before the Fiat goes back to the shop for cosmetic TSB updates.
I even included a mini-challenge on 140 treadwear street tires against a Twin Turbocharged Aero Beetle, nothing yet.
Would you man up on their behalf and represent them? what about a Smurfette vs. Fiat mini-challenge?
03-06-2012, 01:42 PM
#260
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03-06-2012, 01:52 PM
#261
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03-06-2012, 01:54 PM
#262
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Maybe it was the newness of the car, or like I said, maybe my car is defective. Weight is with me in it and a little less than a 1/4 tank of fuel on a certified scale. I'm 225 lbs...
It's close enough that I have wrestled with getting an exhaust system because the loss of weight would put me out of TTS.
It's close enough that I have wrestled with getting an exhaust system because the loss of weight would put me out of TTS.
If your car puts another 5 whp (yes, just five) on the dyno, it gets a DNQ in TTS, even at the pretty high 3,420 lbs minimum weight (that includes driver).
If you let it run to 8,500 rpm, it will surely put more than 420whp, as all other 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 have done. Near 400whp is what the stock 3.6 GT3 puts on the dyno once the engines are loosen up.
You'll need to add more weight, install a restrictor plate and retune, install a rev limiter that cannot be changed in the car, or tune the ECU to lose 20 whp. That would get you in TTS.
03-06-2012, 02:01 PM
#263
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Both D Popp and Wally ran sub 2.00s in TTS at VIR and Wally ran a 1.29 at Road Atlanta. The NASA mid atlantic region is FAST.
I think Wally also ran a 1.16 at Summit.
My best times are 1.19 at Summit and 2.05 at VIR but I also don't run A6s and have very little aero. The key is lots of aero, run on A6s and take full advantage of torque.
I think Wally also ran a 1.16 at Summit.
My best times are 1.19 at Summit and 2.05 at VIR but I also don't run A6s and have very little aero. The key is lots of aero, run on A6s and take full advantage of torque.
My friend Randy P. from New York is also an autocrosser, and plenty fast track driver (running 2:20s in a 996 GT3 with stock drivetrain except R&P gear is quite decent at its 6th day at Sebring). Mr. Sideways (Ian) another autocrosser that is smoking fast at a racetrack.
...then there is the Randy P. we call Izzone, also an autocrosser and about to dethrone Reter as the 2012 GT3 DE Cup champion.
03-06-2012, 02:25 PM
#265
Nothing yet, I'm waiting for any Aero Beetle to step up, no takers so far. They have suggested I go back to my stock mufflers, detune my Fiat, put back the skinny wheels, put back my stock boulevard suspension, and still no takers.
I suggested the place (Sebring in 25 days), the rules, and still no takers. I'm running Sebring with NASA anyway (it would be the first time I can have Sebring with open track), and given the multitude that will sign up, I will run A6 for 2 sessions to try to shoot for the TTU class record, before the Fiat goes back to the shop for cosmetic TSB updates.
I even included a mini-challenge on 140 treadwear street tires against a Twin Turbocharged Aero Beetle, nothing yet.
Would you man up on their behalf and represent them? what about a Smurfette vs. Fiat mini-challenge?
I suggested the place (Sebring in 25 days), the rules, and still no takers. I'm running Sebring with NASA anyway (it would be the first time I can have Sebring with open track), and given the multitude that will sign up, I will run A6 for 2 sessions to try to shoot for the TTU class record, before the Fiat goes back to the shop for cosmetic TSB updates.
I even included a mini-challenge on 140 treadwear street tires against a Twin Turbocharged Aero Beetle, nothing yet.
Would you man up on their behalf and represent them? what about a Smurfette vs. Fiat mini-challenge?
You should smoke me by the numbers
03-06-2012, 02:25 PM
#266
I would say too close.
If your car puts another 5 whp (yes, just five) on the dyno, it gets a DNQ in TTS, even at the pretty high 3,420 lbs minimum weight (that includes driver).
If you let it run to 8,500 rpm, it will surely put more than 420whp, as all other 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 have done. Near 400whp is what the stock 3.6 GT3 puts on the dyno once the engines are loosen up.
You'll need to add more weight, install a restrictor plate and retune, install a rev limiter that cannot be changed in the car, or tune the ECU to lose 20 whp. That would get you in TTS.
If your car puts another 5 whp (yes, just five) on the dyno, it gets a DNQ in TTS, even at the pretty high 3,420 lbs minimum weight (that includes driver).
If you let it run to 8,500 rpm, it will surely put more than 420whp, as all other 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 have done. Near 400whp is what the stock 3.6 GT3 puts on the dyno once the engines are loosen up.
You'll need to add more weight, install a restrictor plate and retune, install a rev limiter that cannot be changed in the car, or tune the ECU to lose 20 whp. That would get you in TTS.
03-06-2012, 02:48 PM
#267
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About a second based on the guys who have tested them and run them for seasons. But some people who just throw them on don't get that much, they can get the same time.
If you are putting them on for the first time, you might not even go as fast as the R6, they are really loose tires and then stick out of nowhere and take off flying.
Popp ran a 1:27.2 in that "TTS" car at Road Atlanta. Then the engine blew up pretty much immediately.
Those cars have much more than crazy aero, side exit exhausts, holes in frame, clutches with no flywheel that negate acceleration advantages of higher hp. ZR1 tranny's and that's just the tip of the iceburg. The cost to rebuild those cars not Corvette Prices anymore.
Plus they drive the heck out of them and have driven on A6's enough to tune them to nearly identical speed of slicks (at least for a 3 lap time trial).
If you are putting them on for the first time, you might not even go as fast as the R6, they are really loose tires and then stick out of nowhere and take off flying.
Both D Popp and Wally ran sub 2.00s in TTS at VIR and Wally ran a 1.29 at Road Atlanta. The NASA mid atlantic region is FAST.
I think Wally also ran a 1.16 at Summit.
My best times are 1.19 at Summit and 2.05 at VIR but I also don't run A6s and have very little aero. The key is lots of aero, run on A6s and take full advantage of torque.
I think Wally also ran a 1.16 at Summit.
My best times are 1.19 at Summit and 2.05 at VIR but I also don't run A6s and have very little aero. The key is lots of aero, run on A6s and take full advantage of torque.
Those cars have much more than crazy aero, side exit exhausts, holes in frame, clutches with no flywheel that negate acceleration advantages of higher hp. ZR1 tranny's and that's just the tip of the iceburg. The cost to rebuild those cars not Corvette Prices anymore.
Plus they drive the heck out of them and have driven on A6's enough to tune them to nearly identical speed of slicks (at least for a 3 lap time trial).
03-06-2012, 03:08 PM
#269
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damn a 1:27 in TTS at road atlanta is crazy. what is the record for TTU, 1:24 from reese?
3.8 RS doesnt have a chance in either class at road atlanta, without doing MAJOR modifications
3.8 RS doesnt have a chance in either class at road atlanta, without doing MAJOR modifications
03-06-2012, 03:16 PM
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You are correct though, you won't show up with anything short of beyond Cup preparation and beat those cars. Those clutches are insane (and cheap too) and there is no telling how many other untold secrets they have.
There has however been so much cheating and allowing of cheating by Corvette's (TT director has a Corvette) in the SE region, I'm not sure what to believe is legit anymore. And I'm not speculating either.