rodH

a quick search I did shows that the Caymen sales have about tripled in the past few years.

I suspect that a lot of it is price going way up on the 911 while other parts of it is that there is a LOT of competition now. Not just corvette but M4, RS5, AMG cars-clk,gts,SL, etc... then you have the other usual suspects.

ManoTexas

Superb thread. Have owned many BMW's, including 2 Z's, and time in many M's, loved them all. Early this year realized the 35 yo dream and moved to 997.2S.
I'm not interested in Nur times, etc. But do want and enjoy the 911 performance that you can't use fully outside the track.
I do tire of every diesel truck and 21 yo in Honda with 120 hp and loud can exhaust wanting to race. But revel in when I can put in sport/pse, and let it rip. Dear god what a joy, and I feel lust every time I drive it. I enjoy the tactile sensations, and the "connected" feeling compared to any M I've driven, regardless of yr. Is it the same connection of earlier 911's? Doesn't mattered. I wanted heated/vented seats. PDK, not auto, even though pre-PDK turbo's are incredible and I was sorely tempted. I've only owned manuals till the 911, but decided PDK was it for me for daily driver. And it's incredible. Instant blow anything away.

I sort of considered the new vette. Sort of. But being cab person thought it was ugly in cab. And just not same approach and driver feeling. Look at sales numbers, new model went wild and sinking every month since. P right choice.

Buddy holding out for 991 cab. Wants new interior. Good for him. 991 not my cup of tea. Love 997 and think best water cooled model. Adore air cooled models, but not for daily and prices out of this world. Regardless, the 991 is still incredible model. Everyone will have their choice. We should welcome each with open arms. I can't diss anyone who wants older model with minimal modern comfort features. Nor can I diss my bud wanting 991 cause he likes the control layout/interior features when I prefer the simplicity of 997, which of course is far more complex than earlier models. We all make choices. And in the end own something that is special.
We each own something that is stunningly cool and is an orgasm to drive. Life is short. Drive and enjoy regardless of year or model.

sandwedge

For me, it doesn't get near that complicated. I don't care about canyon road handling, electric steering or size. I just need to look at the car to know I don't want it regardless of price or performance. It's not one or two things but to my eyes there's something off about the whole package. The harmony and balance of the 997 styling just isn't there imo.

Fatandre

Yeah. I find the 991 nicer looking than the 997

Ynot

Styling is subjective, I'm not a fan of the size of the 991 but in terms of looks, I've grown to like and prefer the 991 over the 997. The bumperettes of 997 cars is just fugly. Totally ruin the rear for me. Without an aerokit, the 997 just looks boring and outdated. The interior feels very old every time I get out of my 981. Don't think I will ever get rid of my 997, I've spend a lot of money on it to make it perfect for me. I wouldn't just give it away. But I wouldn't mind adding a 991.2 to my garage. Everything feels right on the 991.2 IMO. Need a bigger garage first, don't have enough space to park all the cars.

StormRune

As I've watched these discussions from the point of view of a prior owner of two 997s and now a 991, I haven't really understood why everyone keeps saying the 991 is a bigger car. I don't really care if anyone prefers a 997 or a 991 aesthetically or mechanically, they are both great cars, but I don't want to let repeated erroneous statements further work their way into becoming perceived as truth. Please allow me to show you the real numbers.

The 991.1 is the same width and slightly shorter in height than the 997. The 991 is a tad lighter, weighing in a 56 pounds less in narrow-body form.

Yes, it is 1.2 inches longer (0.7% longer) but that alone I think most would have trouble seeing the difference. I think it is the 4 inch longer wheelbase and the 20" wheels that make it look bigger perhaps, but the longer wheelbase brings improved ride and stability and the suspension is tuned to handle the 20" wheels just fine.

You can argue the aesthetics of design details all you want, but I don't think the arguments about it being a bigger beast are correct unless you think 0.7% longer validates that side of the argument Then I'd argue that being slightly shorter and lighter makes it smaller. Here are the real stats:

997.2: Width: 71.2 (72.9 wide body) Length: 175.6 Height: 51.2 Wheelbase: 92.5 Curb Weight: 3131 (3157 wide body)
991.1: Width: 71.2 (72.9 wide body) Length: 176.8 Height: 51.0 Wheelbase: 96.5 Curb Weight: 3075 (3153 wide body)

Okay... I know this is the 997 forum... please feel free to let me have it!

mk85911

All good points, StormRune, and as an owner of both, your opinion means quite a bit to me. Too often we owners of a particular model loose our objectivity. Mike

KNS

It's not just the actual measurements. The 996 and 997 are nearly identical in dimensions but the 997 looks physically larger, particularly around the rear end.

The 991 is just a tad bigger than the 997 but the 991 looks hulking in the flesh.

I saw a new Boxster and on older BMW E39 530i side by side in front of me on the road the other day. The BMW is a four place family sedan yet the Boxster looked enormous and downright gigantic next to the E39. The 991 is bigger still over the Boxster.

I loathe the direction cars are going in size. Richard Hammond was driving a new "MINI" on an older Top Gear a while back and commented "How long can you really call it a 'MINI'"? I completely agree.

vern1

Some people just need a reason to put down the 991 and that's the best they can come up with, even as you point out (and as it has been pointed out before) that it is wrong. Or they fall back on the raw/analogue/visceral BS

Its a tired argument but one that seems to know no end

Skwerl

So basically, you'd better prefer the 991 over the 997 or you're objectively wrong and spewing tired BS.

vern1

Yes, that's exactly what I said

Skwerl

What criticism will you allow someone to levy at the 991 that wouldn't fall into those categories (objectively wrong or tired BS)?

Ynot

My 981 Boxster looks bigger than my 997 in my garage, I don't think it is but it appears bigger, similar to what you said about the 991. It looks a lot bigger than the 997 but as Storm stated, it is not that much bigger.

jdgamble

Yeah the size thing is more due to the fullness of the dimenstions. I parked next to a 991 the other day, and optically it looks bigger. My wife said the same thing and she's a total car rookie. The rear deck and cabin occupy more of the total dimensions. The 997 is a more svelte design. This is what consumers want. Every brand is doing it. Compare a current BMW 3 series to an E36 from 20 years ago. It's crazy. The old car looks like a toy. For those of us that like intimate cars, it kinda sucks. That said, I like the 991 and I'm sure I'll end up there one day.

Dennis C

Change is difficult for some people to accept, especially when changes come to something that is already so good.

I remember when I first sold my 996 and bought a 997. There were many complaints from the 996 crew about how the 997 interior was complicated and fussy, and that it has sooooo many buttons compared to the 996 interior. I posted photos of the interior of 996 and a 997 with comparable equipment. The 997 interior had one more button. That's right, one button.

There are also comments on the 996 board about the fact that the 997 is huge compared to the 996, even though it really isn't.

When the 992 launches, it will all start again.

Lather, rinse, repeat.