991 vs 997?
12-20-2016, 11:52 AM
#106
Actually, the 997 GT2 clocked 7:18 (Porsche factory test OEM). The Porsche 991 GT3 driven by Horst von Saurma was clocked at 7:32. The 991 Turbo S also driven by Saurma clocked in at 7:34. The 997 Turbo (non-S) was at 7:38 (Porsche factory test).
The fastest times by Porsches on the Nurburgring were set by (in order):
-918 Spyder
-918 Spyder
-997 GT2RS (7:18)
-997 GT2RS
-Carrera GT
-Carrera GT
-Carerra GT
-997 GT2
-991 GT3 (7:32)
In order for a Nurburgring time to count under the "Production" classification, it MUST use OEM tires.
The 991 GT3 is absolutely smoked and obliterated by numerous GTR, Corvette and Viper runs. A stock 2009 Corvette (bone stock with OEM tires) runs a good 10 seconds faster than the 991 GT3. Let that sink in for you. If we are dealing with a base 991 or 991S, it is even more humiliating and shows just how far behind Porsche has fallen from the 997 to 991 era.
It is established that the 991 is far slower than other cars costing half as much, has a worse interior than a 50k family sedan, so what exactly is its selling point? Looks? Fun to drive? How is making the 991 bigger and fatter helping at all?
The fastest times by Porsches on the Nurburgring were set by (in order):
-918 Spyder
-918 Spyder
-997 GT2RS (7:18)
-997 GT2RS
-Carrera GT
-Carrera GT
-Carerra GT
-997 GT2
-991 GT3 (7:32)
In order for a Nurburgring time to count under the "Production" classification, it MUST use OEM tires.
The 991 GT3 is absolutely smoked and obliterated by numerous GTR, Corvette and Viper runs. A stock 2009 Corvette (bone stock with OEM tires) runs a good 10 seconds faster than the 991 GT3. Let that sink in for you. If we are dealing with a base 991 or 991S, it is even more humiliating and shows just how far behind Porsche has fallen from the 997 to 991 era.
It is established that the 991 is far slower than other cars costing half as much, has a worse interior than a 50k family sedan, so what exactly is its selling point? Looks? Fun to drive? How is making the 991 bigger and fatter helping at all?
12-20-2016, 11:59 AM
#107
Pro
I may be in a minority here but I like the 997 interior just fine for what it is. The interior of a sports car. I don't want my 911 interior to look and feel like an E Class, Lexus GS or Audi A6. If I want luxury interior I'll buy a luxury sedan of some sort. As for the 991, one of the reasons it has zero appeal to me is that it's turned into something of a hybrid between sports car and luxury cruiser, interior included.
12-20-2016, 12:15 PM
#108
Instructor
Originally Posted by caymannyc
I get what you're saying but that's not really helpful. Old threads are old, based on old information and based on input from a set group of users in the past. There is more mileage now for both cars, new experiences, new people and perspectives that could provide additional benefit and more complete knowledge. For instance I got myself back into a 997 very recently despite having the funds for a new 991. My reasons are personal, unique from others and maybe they will resonate with the OP so I'll offer my perspective:
In my view, the 991 is a better looking car from 2 angles: the back, and the front. I love the wider stance and the curvier rear and headlamp angles. However, the 997 to me looks better from the side due to its smaller size.
When the 991 first came out, I thought "wow that's a great looking car." As time went on, my views started changing. Part of this had to do with the fact that I started seeing Panameras everywhere. I wasn't sure if the Panamera was the 4-door version of the 991, or if the 991 was the 2-door version of the Panamera. It wasn't just the looks, it was the interior. Yes, the 991 interior is "nice", but it all felt very Panamera to me. And I don't think the 991 interior even comes close to offerings from Mercedes BMW or Audi, so it started feeling a bit like a half-arsed effort at luxury. If you want to be blown away, step inside a new E class or S class, OMG those are nice cars.
And why is the 991 so large? I mean who is the market for these things? I think the answer is obvious - middle aged men who want to "feel" fast but don't want to commit to actually being "fast." Make no mistake, the 991 is faster. In the S trim or Turbo, it is very quick. But it is NOT faster because of the "nicer" interior or the larger body. It is due to drivetrain/engine improvements and lighter weight. If Porsche had made similar improvements on a smaller chassis, I believe the car would be even quicker than it is now. But being quick and being an actual sports car are no longer the priority (and probably have not been for quite some time for Porsche). There is now equal importance on comfort and luxury and having things like heated seats and quiet fuel efficient engines.
So the problem is, the 991 has a worse interior than a MUCH CHEAPER E-class, and is slower than other similar cars. It's become a "jack of all trades but master of none", so hey, if it's going to go down that road, it'd better have some significant emotional appeal. Yes, it is fun to drive, but is a PDK 991 truly more fun than a manual Boxster or even a Miata or S2000 or a 3 series? Honestly, is it?
Obviously the 997 is also a "compromise" car, with navigation, heated seats and leather interiors and those back seats. But to me the 991 was just a step too far. The 996 has the IMS issues and the 993 is a bit too old for me.
Porsche's flagship will NEVER again be a 2-seat sports car. The market has spoken and it is too small. Porsche cars will only continue to get longer and larger and more "luxed" out. We are going to see hybrid engines and more electronic assists than ever. This is not because it makes the car better. It is because it is what more people want to buy and because regulations demand it.
The 997 for me was an emotional decision, based on my love of the brand and love for sports cars. I also bought a Cayman because I have a thing for 2-seaters. I don't care about "nice" leather and I would prefer having manual roll-down windows if they still made those. Those days are long gone now.
In my view, the 991 is a better looking car from 2 angles: the back, and the front. I love the wider stance and the curvier rear and headlamp angles. However, the 997 to me looks better from the side due to its smaller size.
When the 991 first came out, I thought "wow that's a great looking car." As time went on, my views started changing. Part of this had to do with the fact that I started seeing Panameras everywhere. I wasn't sure if the Panamera was the 4-door version of the 991, or if the 991 was the 2-door version of the Panamera. It wasn't just the looks, it was the interior. Yes, the 991 interior is "nice", but it all felt very Panamera to me. And I don't think the 991 interior even comes close to offerings from Mercedes BMW or Audi, so it started feeling a bit like a half-arsed effort at luxury. If you want to be blown away, step inside a new E class or S class, OMG those are nice cars.
And why is the 991 so large? I mean who is the market for these things? I think the answer is obvious - middle aged men who want to "feel" fast but don't want to commit to actually being "fast." Make no mistake, the 991 is faster. In the S trim or Turbo, it is very quick. But it is NOT faster because of the "nicer" interior or the larger body. It is due to drivetrain/engine improvements and lighter weight. If Porsche had made similar improvements on a smaller chassis, I believe the car would be even quicker than it is now. But being quick and being an actual sports car are no longer the priority (and probably have not been for quite some time for Porsche). There is now equal importance on comfort and luxury and having things like heated seats and quiet fuel efficient engines.
So the problem is, the 991 has a worse interior than a MUCH CHEAPER E-class, and is slower than other similar cars. It's become a "jack of all trades but master of none", so hey, if it's going to go down that road, it'd better have some significant emotional appeal. Yes, it is fun to drive, but is a PDK 991 truly more fun than a manual Boxster or even a Miata or S2000 or a 3 series? Honestly, is it?
Obviously the 997 is also a "compromise" car, with navigation, heated seats and leather interiors and those back seats. But to me the 991 was just a step too far. The 996 has the IMS issues and the 993 is a bit too old for me.
Porsche's flagship will NEVER again be a 2-seat sports car. The market has spoken and it is too small. Porsche cars will only continue to get longer and larger and more "luxed" out. We are going to see hybrid engines and more electronic assists than ever. This is not because it makes the car better. It is because it is what more people want to buy and because regulations demand it.
The 997 for me was an emotional decision, based on my love of the brand and love for sports cars. I also bought a Cayman because I have a thing for 2-seaters. I don't care about "nice" leather and I would prefer having manual roll-down windows if they still made those. Those days are long gone now.
12-20-2016, 02:26 PM
#109
Instructor
This outrage over it being as wide as a 5 series is misplaced. The 911 has often been as wide as 5 series.
993 narrow body width: 68.3"
993 wide body width: 70.67"
E34 width: 68.9"
E39 width: 70.9"
996 wide body width: 72"
996 narrow body width: 69.7"
997 C2 width: 69.7"
997 turbo width: 72.8"
E60 width: 72.7"
There was also some complaints about the 991 and "those back seats" and how Porsche's flagship would never again be a 2-seater. When has it ever been? The 356, every normal 911, the 928 were all of Porsche's flagships and none of those were two seaters. The 914, Boxster, and Cayman are the only Porsche street cars with two seats.
Visually I'm not a fan of the 991 but I haven't driven one yet. Enthusiasts have had this same reaction to every new breed of Porsche. When the 356 made way for the 911 enthusiasts were upset that their sports car went away for a grand tourer and it was too big and heavy. When the long hoods went away and they got impact bumpers they said the same thing. When the first C4 came out they said it about the 964. People generally liked the 993 but then all hell broke loose when the 996 came out. This will happen every time anything changes.
993 narrow body width: 68.3"
993 wide body width: 70.67"
E34 width: 68.9"
E39 width: 70.9"
996 wide body width: 72"
996 narrow body width: 69.7"
997 C2 width: 69.7"
997 turbo width: 72.8"
E60 width: 72.7"
There was also some complaints about the 991 and "those back seats" and how Porsche's flagship would never again be a 2-seater. When has it ever been? The 356, every normal 911, the 928 were all of Porsche's flagships and none of those were two seaters. The 914, Boxster, and Cayman are the only Porsche street cars with two seats.
Visually I'm not a fan of the 991 but I haven't driven one yet. Enthusiasts have had this same reaction to every new breed of Porsche. When the 356 made way for the 911 enthusiasts were upset that their sports car went away for a grand tourer and it was too big and heavy. When the long hoods went away and they got impact bumpers they said the same thing. When the first C4 came out they said it about the 964. People generally liked the 993 but then all hell broke loose when the 996 came out. This will happen every time anything changes.
12-20-2016, 04:13 PM
#110
Funny enough, when C&D reviewed the 991.2 (and it was an overall positive review) they said something along the lines of "the only generations of 911s that were interpreted as improvements over past versions were the 993 and 997".
So I agree with what you're saying fundamentally... similar to audiophiles complaining about updated technology.
However, in new technology tradeoffs are often made. New audio tech often results in lower fidelity. Running an early MP3 vs. a CD through a high end system to someone with a good (or even decent) ear for music, reveals all the problems with compression. Similar with new smaller speaker systems (think Bose) which sound "okay" but make major tradeoffs vs. older technology large speakers.
It's true that the masses often can't discern that much of a difference. It is also true that for most a BMW and Porsche are "close enough" in driving characteristics. So the result is most Porsche buyers are buying a name, a brand, prestige etc. In that group, more are buying comfort too.
For those that are buying for the pure driving pleasure, or the "whole experience" of the package, then they will often prefer and notice a turbo vs a NA engine, or hydraulic vs. electric steering, or a simpler cockpit setup, etc.
Details matter, not in measurements, but in how the parts are all coming together...
If the next 911 had hydraulic steering, a six speed, and 500 hp of NA power, with the styling cues of the 997 or 993, I doubt many enthusiasts will complain... Porsche has the tech to do this, but they cant due to regulations. So they are headed a different route. Do I understand the regs? Sure do. Do I think they positively impact my driving pleasure? Not one bit. So, since I have the option, I opt for the 997.
So I agree with what you're saying fundamentally... similar to audiophiles complaining about updated technology.
However, in new technology tradeoffs are often made. New audio tech often results in lower fidelity. Running an early MP3 vs. a CD through a high end system to someone with a good (or even decent) ear for music, reveals all the problems with compression. Similar with new smaller speaker systems (think Bose) which sound "okay" but make major tradeoffs vs. older technology large speakers.
It's true that the masses often can't discern that much of a difference. It is also true that for most a BMW and Porsche are "close enough" in driving characteristics. So the result is most Porsche buyers are buying a name, a brand, prestige etc. In that group, more are buying comfort too.
For those that are buying for the pure driving pleasure, or the "whole experience" of the package, then they will often prefer and notice a turbo vs a NA engine, or hydraulic vs. electric steering, or a simpler cockpit setup, etc.
Details matter, not in measurements, but in how the parts are all coming together...
If the next 911 had hydraulic steering, a six speed, and 500 hp of NA power, with the styling cues of the 997 or 993, I doubt many enthusiasts will complain... Porsche has the tech to do this, but they cant due to regulations. So they are headed a different route. Do I understand the regs? Sure do. Do I think they positively impact my driving pleasure? Not one bit. So, since I have the option, I opt for the 997.
This outrage over it being as wide as a 5 series is misplaced. The 911 has often been as wide as 5 series.
993 narrow body width: 68.3"
993 wide body width: 70.67"
E34 width: 68.9"
E39 width: 70.9"
996 wide body width: 72"
996 narrow body width: 69.7"
997 C2 width: 69.7"
997 turbo width: 72.8"
E60 width: 72.7"
There was also some complaints about the 991 and "those back seats" and how Porsche's flagship would never again be a 2-seater. When has it ever been? The 356, every normal 911, the 928 were all of Porsche's flagships and none of those were two seaters. The 914, Boxster, and Cayman are the only Porsche street cars with two seats.
Visually I'm not a fan of the 991 but I haven't driven one yet. Enthusiasts have had this same reaction to every new breed of Porsche. When the 356 made way for the 911 enthusiasts were upset that their sports car went away for a grand tourer and it was too big and heavy. When the long hoods went away and they got impact bumpers they said the same thing. When the first C4 came out they said it about the 964. People generally liked the 993 but then all hell broke loose when the 996 came out. This will happen every time anything changes.
993 narrow body width: 68.3"
993 wide body width: 70.67"
E34 width: 68.9"
E39 width: 70.9"
996 wide body width: 72"
996 narrow body width: 69.7"
997 C2 width: 69.7"
997 turbo width: 72.8"
E60 width: 72.7"
There was also some complaints about the 991 and "those back seats" and how Porsche's flagship would never again be a 2-seater. When has it ever been? The 356, every normal 911, the 928 were all of Porsche's flagships and none of those were two seaters. The 914, Boxster, and Cayman are the only Porsche street cars with two seats.
Visually I'm not a fan of the 991 but I haven't driven one yet. Enthusiasts have had this same reaction to every new breed of Porsche. When the 356 made way for the 911 enthusiasts were upset that their sports car went away for a grand tourer and it was too big and heavy. When the long hoods went away and they got impact bumpers they said the same thing. When the first C4 came out they said it about the 964. People generally liked the 993 but then all hell broke loose when the 996 came out. This will happen every time anything changes.
12-20-2016, 04:26 PM
#111
You are the one that said hypercars. A 3.4 sec 0-60 time, and mid 11s quarter mile is somewhere slower than a hypercar of the early 00s and slightly faster than one from the early/mid 90s (McLaren F1, F40, XJ220). Slap modern tires on those older hypercars, and they are probably dead even.
A 2012 GT-R can get a sub 3 sec 0-60 time stock.
What I find funny is the notion that purchases are due to affordability for many 911 buyers. If I am cross shopping a 991 GT3 vs. a 997 GT3 vs. some other make, it is all about the preference. The fact that I don't even consider a 991 Carrera on my radar as any sort of upgrade to my current car says something about my preferences. I couldn't care less about the newer car vs. older car. I care about what I enjoy more, and want me. The 991 just doesn't pull me at all. The 991.1 has virtually nothing going for it: barely any performance improvement at all, worse steering, worse looks (subjective, I know). The 991.2 has the performance edge, and I admitted as much that it is compelling. But it has worse engine performance characteristics (lag), worse looks, and worse sound. On balance, just not compelling. If I wanted the straight line performance, I would buy a 997 turbo.
I have not driven one for an extended period -- no more than 20 mins at a time. I don't need more time to acclimated to the worse steering and I have plenty of opportunities to observe its worse looks from a distance.
I have experience in the cayenne and panamera during services (loaners) so I know the interior quite well...
BTW, I am not saying 991s are bad cars at all. Just in comparison to the 997.2 I find no compelling reason to "upgrade". It would be a downgrade on too many levels.
A 2012 GT-R can get a sub 3 sec 0-60 time stock.
What I find funny is the notion that purchases are due to affordability for many 911 buyers. If I am cross shopping a 991 GT3 vs. a 997 GT3 vs. some other make, it is all about the preference. The fact that I don't even consider a 991 Carrera on my radar as any sort of upgrade to my current car says something about my preferences. I couldn't care less about the newer car vs. older car. I care about what I enjoy more, and want me. The 991 just doesn't pull me at all. The 991.1 has virtually nothing going for it: barely any performance improvement at all, worse steering, worse looks (subjective, I know). The 991.2 has the performance edge, and I admitted as much that it is compelling. But it has worse engine performance characteristics (lag), worse looks, and worse sound. On balance, just not compelling. If I wanted the straight line performance, I would buy a 997 turbo.
I have not driven one for an extended period -- no more than 20 mins at a time. I don't need more time to acclimated to the worse steering and I have plenty of opportunities to observe its worse looks from a distance.
I have experience in the cayenne and panamera during services (loaners) so I know the interior quite well...
BTW, I am not saying 991s are bad cars at all. Just in comparison to the 997.2 I find no compelling reason to "upgrade". It would be a downgrade on too many levels.
Have you driven the 991 for an extended period of time? There is a difference but it's not that big of a difference.
lol, hyper cars of the 90's, give me a break, it's faster than a 2008 GT2, faster than a 991 GT3, Sports Auto clocked it at 7:30, it's faster than a lot of modern cars. GTR nurburgring times doesn't count, we all they used non production tires.
Awful interior is your opinion, I think most people who doesn't own the 997 will say the 991 interior is far more modern and more nice than the outdated 997 interior. Every time I get out of the 981 and into the 997, it just feels old.
The 997 is a great car, at the current price, there isn't much out there that beats it. Going back to your first paragraph, the price difference is huge, if it was a straight swap. I think most people would do it.
lol, hyper cars of the 90's, give me a break, it's faster than a 2008 GT2, faster than a 991 GT3, Sports Auto clocked it at 7:30, it's faster than a lot of modern cars. GTR nurburgring times doesn't count, we all they used non production tires.
Awful interior is your opinion, I think most people who doesn't own the 997 will say the 991 interior is far more modern and more nice than the outdated 997 interior. Every time I get out of the 981 and into the 997, it just feels old.
The 997 is a great car, at the current price, there isn't much out there that beats it. Going back to your first paragraph, the price difference is huge, if it was a straight swap. I think most people would do it.
12-20-2016, 05:43 PM
#112
Rennlist Member
As Pearl Jam so eloquently stated: "It's evolution baby!"
A 1.6" increase in overall length... (Photo credit to MotorTrend)
A 1.6" increase in overall length... (Photo credit to MotorTrend)
12-20-2016, 06:29 PM
#113
Based on looks alone you couldn't give me a 991....I would not own one and wouldn't trade my 2010 997 even up for a brand new 991. The car physically turns me off and that's putting it politely. Now when the 997 first came out and I saw one up close and personal at the dealers......I fell in love and I still am in love.
12-20-2016, 06:48 PM
#114
Rocky Mountain High
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
That's one of the wonderful things about the 911 range over the years. There's a butt for every seat!
12-20-2016, 08:10 PM
#115
Rennlist Member
https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/
Nein, nein, nein! The 991.2 does not have an official lap time recorded on the NRing. In 2013, the 991.1 GT3 did the run in 7:32. That's the latest official 991 time. A stock Nissan GTR from 2009 is faster than the 991.1 GT3. Heck, a Camaro clocked in at 7:29 this October!!! A Camaro faster than a GT3. Is a Camaro a "hyper-car?" Hey, at least the 991 is faster than the 997. Except that's only half accurate because the fastest recorded time from a 997 (albeit a GT2) from like 2009 is something like 20 seconds faster than the 991 GT3.
And this is why Porsche 911 sales are...stagnant. More Corvettes are sold in the US than Porsche 911s worldwide (Corvette sales have tripled in the last 3 or so years). The global population is rising, wealth is increasing, yet sales of the 911 are flat. Porsche is losing 911 customers to other cars, that's a hard fact. And if Porsche decided to come out with a modern 911 that was the size of a 964 with some updated styling, I would buy it sight unseen.
Or maybe you just got older and bigger? I don't know how you can't tell the difference. Put a BMW 3-series and a 5-series side to side and view them from the front and rear. Can you tell the difference? Well guess what, that's almost exactly the size difference between a 997.2 and a 991.2. The 991.2 is almost as wide as the latest BMW 5-series (0.3" difference). How exactly does that feel small to you? I don't know where you're from, but in some places in the world, being able to park in cramped places and not worry about getting dinged by the other incredibly fat SUVs and trucks driven by incredibly fat people parked on either side of you is a real concern.
And to the poster who said he doesn't get the outrage over the size comparison with BMW 5-series, well just head on over to bimmerfest and see what they have to say about the size of the latest 5-series. I'm not sure you all remember, but the 5-series used to be a very fun car to drive with exceptional driving characteristics and wasn't the boat that it is now.
Nein, nein, nein! The 991.2 does not have an official lap time recorded on the NRing. In 2013, the 991.1 GT3 did the run in 7:32. That's the latest official 991 time. A stock Nissan GTR from 2009 is faster than the 991.1 GT3. Heck, a Camaro clocked in at 7:29 this October!!! A Camaro faster than a GT3. Is a Camaro a "hyper-car?" Hey, at least the 991 is faster than the 997. Except that's only half accurate because the fastest recorded time from a 997 (albeit a GT2) from like 2009 is something like 20 seconds faster than the 991 GT3.
Realistically, if a 997 and a 991 parked opposite of each other, only a diehard Porsche owner will be able to tell the difference. I don't want the 911 to get any bigger but when you are inside, it still feels small and drives a lot smaller than it looks. Take a 991, especially a 991.2 on a canyon run or on the track, it might change your mind. All these talks about taking it out for a short test drive, cruising at 35mph on regular roads, the steering feels numb, it's too huge, I can't park it, makes me laugh.
And to the poster who said he doesn't get the outrage over the size comparison with BMW 5-series, well just head on over to bimmerfest and see what they have to say about the size of the latest 5-series. I'm not sure you all remember, but the 5-series used to be a very fun car to drive with exceptional driving characteristics and wasn't the boat that it is now.
Last edited by caymannyc; 12-20-2016 at 08:54 PM.
12-20-2016, 08:59 PM
#116
[URL]
And this is why Porsche 911 sales are...stagnant. More Corvettes are sold in the US than Porsche 911s worldwide (Corvette sales have tripled in the last 3 or so years). The global population is rising, wealth is increasing, yet sales of the 911 are flat. Porsche is losing 911 customers to other cars, that's a hard fact. And if Porsche decided to come out with a modern 911 that was the size of a 964 with some updated styling, I would buy it sight unseen.
And this is why Porsche 911 sales are...stagnant. More Corvettes are sold in the US than Porsche 911s worldwide (Corvette sales have tripled in the last 3 or so years). The global population is rising, wealth is increasing, yet sales of the 911 are flat. Porsche is losing 911 customers to other cars, that's a hard fact. And if Porsche decided to come out with a modern 911 that was the size of a 964 with some updated styling, I would buy it sight unseen.
If they came up with any small sports car (old 911 or Elise sized), I'd buy one too.
12-20-2016, 09:45 PM
#117
Rennlist Member
https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/
And this is why Porsche 911 sales are...stagnant. More Corvettes are sold in the US than Porsche 911s worldwide (Corvette sales have tripled in the last 3 or so years). The global population is rising, wealth is increasing, yet sales of the 911 are flat. Porsche is losing 911 customers to other cars, that's a hard fact. And if Porsche decided to come out with a modern 911 that was the size of a 964 with some updated styling, I would buy it sight unseen.
.
And this is why Porsche 911 sales are...stagnant. More Corvettes are sold in the US than Porsche 911s worldwide (Corvette sales have tripled in the last 3 or so years). The global population is rising, wealth is increasing, yet sales of the 911 are flat. Porsche is losing 911 customers to other cars, that's a hard fact. And if Porsche decided to come out with a modern 911 that was the size of a 964 with some updated styling, I would buy it sight unseen.
.
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...olet-corvette/
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...e/porsche-911/
12-20-2016, 09:56 PM
#118
Rennlist Member
This is pretty funny. You do know that the 911 has ALWAYS had much less sales than the Vette, right? Usually about 1/3 the sales. I suspect a lot of it has to do with the cost being and always being around 2x as much. You mention losing sales to other companies. Actually the 911 is losing sales to the Boxster/Cayman, since it is now more of a real car than an expensive miata like when it first came out.
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...olet-corvette/
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...e/porsche-911/
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...olet-corvette/
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...e/porsche-911/
The point about the Corvette is that Corvette sales have tripled in recent years. The market for luxury cars is exploding, especially in places like China and the middle east. So you have to ask why 911 sales are flat. I suspect a lot of would-be 911 buyers are purchasing AMG GT, Ferraris or just sticking to their 997s. Quite a few from anecdotal evidence have gone to the Corvette. Aside from the amazing herotage of Porsche and Le Mans, I honestly don't know what the modern 991 offers that is better than rival car makers. Heck, if it wasn't for Steve McQueen I probably wouldnt even be here
12-20-2016, 09:59 PM
#119
Rennlist Member
12-20-2016, 10:28 PM
#120
Rennlist Member
This is a very entertaining thread. As a past 997 GT3 owner and currently a 991 GT3 owner, I'm looking forward to soon replacing my daily with a 997 GTS.
When considering what model 911 to get as a daily, budget is the main consideration. So really I am tempted by the affordability of the 996 4S, but can't pass up the value on the GTS. For me all this back and forth is just nit picking. I've driven 996, 997 and 991 Carreras and they are all great drivers cars that I would have fun owning. They have the DNA of a Porsche and have a different characters but are enjoyable in their own way.
When considering what model 911 to get as a daily, budget is the main consideration. So really I am tempted by the affordability of the 996 4S, but can't pass up the value on the GTS. For me all this back and forth is just nit picking. I've driven 996, 997 and 991 Carreras and they are all great drivers cars that I would have fun owning. They have the DNA of a Porsche and have a different characters but are enjoyable in their own way.