The new 911 Carrera GTS
09-17-2010, 06:15 PM
#76
Nordschleife Master
Re the 997.2... Yeah, it still has the 911 'classic architecture'. Tweaked, softened? Yes, but it still dances, if you know how to drive it.
09-17-2010, 06:27 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
The hallmark of a 911 is short wheelbase and engine in the rear. Since '63 the 911 had its wheelbase increased twice. The 997.2 is still today the shortest wheelbase Porsche. The 991 wheelbase will be 100mm (4") longer and at that longer than the Cayman - the largest increase ever. So there you have it, that increase changes its dynamics (less go-kart) even more. It may actually be a 'better car' but, for those who get what a 911 is all about... not so much.
Mixing threads here...
Rear engine and short wheelbase are what define the 911 experience. They can't stray too far from that design and remain true to the model's nature.
09-17-2010, 06:45 PM
#78
Nordschleife Master
+1 This. Exactly.
Mixing threads here...
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. The wheelbase of a 1969 911 is only 3.1" shorter than a 2009 911. That's a smaller difference spanning 40 years of evolution than the rumored 4" increase in wheelbase that's coming with the next generation car. There is reason to worry that the characteristic 911 handling won't survive the dramatic change. Will it be a good-handling car? Undoubtedly. Will it still be "a 911?" Maybe not.
Rear engine and short wheelbase are what define the 911 experience. They can't stray too far from that design and remain true to the model's nature.
Mixing threads here...
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. The wheelbase of a 1969 911 is only 3.1" shorter than a 2009 911. That's a smaller difference spanning 40 years of evolution than the rumored 4" increase in wheelbase that's coming with the next generation car. There is reason to worry that the characteristic 911 handling won't survive the dramatic change. Will it be a good-handling car? Undoubtedly. Will it still be "a 911?" Maybe not.
Rear engine and short wheelbase are what define the 911 experience. They can't stray too far from that design and remain true to the model's nature.
It's with replies such as yours that I learn who the core 911 fans are in this forum.
09-18-2010, 12:36 AM
#81
Craig- as an active member and sponsor, I'm surprised you're so negative. Some of us are excited about this car and see it as a good value considering what it comes with. Sometimes the end of the line models are more than paint and gimmicks, more like the 993 C2S than an Anniversary or Club Sport edition. Not all of us here are into the track like you so I understand your perspective but I think this car is more than a yawn for the non-racers.
09-19-2010, 06:29 PM
#83
Intermediate
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Could it be that everyone is right?
I think the GTS will be an almost perfect 911. It's one of the few 911 iterations I would contemplate buying new and keeping.
That said, my guess is the new 991 will also be sensational. Porsche always seems to surprise by making improvements each model year—even though the faithful are convinced it can't get any better.
As for the increase in wheelbase, from an aesthetic point of view that would be an improvement as long as the length of the car is not increased. (IMO the front and rear overhangs on the current model are a bit too long.) Could the increase in wheelbase be compensated by some engineering wizardry that makes the car feel just as agile as its predecessor? Almost certainly yes.
I think the GTS will be an almost perfect 911. It's one of the few 911 iterations I would contemplate buying new and keeping.
That said, my guess is the new 991 will also be sensational. Porsche always seems to surprise by making improvements each model year—even though the faithful are convinced it can't get any better.
As for the increase in wheelbase, from an aesthetic point of view that would be an improvement as long as the length of the car is not increased. (IMO the front and rear overhangs on the current model are a bit too long.) Could the increase in wheelbase be compensated by some engineering wizardry that makes the car feel just as agile as its predecessor? Almost certainly yes.
09-20-2010, 02:41 PM
#85
I think it will almost certainly be the "perfect" non-GT 997. Now, if only they had released it 5 years ago, what an incredible run it would have had at the top of the heap.
09-20-2010, 03:17 PM
#87
The 911 with the GT3 engine is called ... the GT3.
Yeah, of course you're right, the GT3 engine is the proper 911 engine and they could have offered it across the board and still made plenty of profit. A GT3 with PASM and a higher ride is my dream 911, maybe some day I'll make that happen.
In the mean time I do love the GTS spec and hope it's popular so that Porsche is motivated to make similar spec cars again - minimalist, simple, lightweight.
Yeah, of course you're right, the GT3 engine is the proper 911 engine and they could have offered it across the board and still made plenty of profit. A GT3 with PASM and a higher ride is my dream 911, maybe some day I'll make that happen.
In the mean time I do love the GTS spec and hope it's popular so that Porsche is motivated to make similar spec cars again - minimalist, simple, lightweight.
09-20-2010, 03:54 PM
#88
Nordschleife Master
09-20-2010, 05:11 PM
#89
09-20-2010, 05:42 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
I think the point cbzzoom was making was that if the GTS sells well, maybe Porsche would invest in building something along the lines of "minimalist, simpler, lighter". 
I wish there was some way we could demonstrate to them that there is a market - build a business case from the customer.
I wish there was some way we could demonstrate to them that there is a market - build a business case from the customer.