tpenta

I know you constantly like to instigate.

Care to tell me how you define "core 911 fans"?

Is that only the people who fully appreciate the exact specifications of the 997.2 with the precise wheelbase dimensions and engine configuration of your liking?

What is so authentic about the 997? What previous 911 are you comparing it to and how does it compare? Virtually every single thing on the 997 is completely different than the 911's of the 70's and 80's. Sure the engine is in the back but come on man, be honest with yourself. You are driving a late-90's reengineered car that is based on some general principles from old Porsches. But weight, height, engine, suspension, brakes, transmission, electronics, and just about everything else in the car is completely different from anything from the 993 back.

Are you telling me you are such a hot **** driver that you can actually tell the difference the 4" bigger wheelbase will make and, as a result, will not buy a 991 because it's not pure enough for you?

Take a break from the ego cool-aid...

-T

ADias

If you are a core 911 fan you know it.

Nugget

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Nobody has claimed anything so rigid or inflexible. Hyperbole can be a form of instigation.

Completely different? The 911 model is one of the least-changed cars I can think of. So much so, that the most common complaint about Porsches is that they don't innovate and that the cars are boring and stale. Consider how many people will tell you that they can't tell the difference between the different 911 models. Or Edgy's friend who buys new 911s but makes sure to always get a red one because that way his neighbors don't notice that he's gotten a new car. Of all the cars that have been built for as long as Porsche have been building the 911, can you point to any models that have changed less?

Park a first year 911 next to a current year 911. Then park a first year Corvette next to a current year Corvette. Then park a first year Mustang next to a current year Mustang. Which cars have changed the most and which the least? Which cars are more "true" today to the character and behavior of their earlier generations?

4" is a huge difference. It's a larger leap in wheelbase than the 911 has seen, in total, since 1969. If the rumors are accurate a 4" increase in wheelbase will have a very noticeable impact on the car's character and handling. You wouldn't have to be a "hot ****" driver to notice, either. In the world of suspension dynamics differences are measured in much smaller units than inches. That's why the -10mm sport suspension (a centimeter!) can have such a profound impact on the handling of the car. Millimeters matter when it comes to wheelbase and suspension geometry. 4" is a dramatic change.

I can't speak for ADias, but for me yes there's a point where the 911 stops being "a 911" in character and I'll sadly look to other marques or models when I buy my next car. If the 911 changes too much I'm sure I'd be happier with an Elise or maybe another MX5 instead. Will that happen with the next 911? Who knows -- none of us know the details and none of us have driven or even seen what the 991 will look like. I can say that a 4" increase in wheelbase is a scary thought and doesn't bode well for my opinion of the car.

Lastly, it's spelled "Kool-Aid™" HTH.

Alan Smithee

They have, and there is...it's called the Spyder. I'm not the only "core 911 fan" that has defected to one...

Those making a big deal about a wheelbase increase are being unreasonable. The increase in length, width, (and yes, wheelbase...it was increased ~3 inches from the 993 to 996), along with weight, have already tranformed the car into what it is today, which is great, but not at all like the "original" 911. The 997 even increased in length and width from the 996. No reason why the wheelbase can't be increased again to reduce front and rear overhangs, improving appearance, and increasing stability and balance.

Weight is what true 911 fans should be concerned with, not wheelbase. If they can reduce it, and rumors are that they will, then we will be heading back in the direction of the original. But we will never get there.

Porsche has hit homeruns with every new model to come down the line in the last few years. I have confidence the next "911" will be great, but like the 997, it will be a 911 in spirit only.

gravedgr

Considering I was speaking of those attributes on a 911, your point about the Spyder is only minimally valid. They could make a Porsche Go-Kart that is even lighter than the Spyder - so what? I'm interested in a lighter, more bare-bones 911. Anything else is irrelevant to this discussion.

Alan Smithee

Then you spring for a GT model.

Look, I'm the same Porsche customer...I waffled between a C2S with all sport options and a GT3, but even with SPASM the C2S was just too quiet and comfortable, and the GT3 too extroverted and impractical (ride height). I'm old school in that I don't like computer-controlled clutches, suspension dampening, exhaust noise, etc., but I have accepted the fact that most Carrera buyers do.

Just pointing out that Porsche is building cars for us; the upcoming Cayman ClubSport will be similar. They may not be 911s, but you have to go back to the 1980s to find a 911 that weighs less. This is how Porsche is marketing their sports cars, and I'm fine with it. That they are less expensive than 911s is only a bonus...

hakaida702

I have a gut feeling that the next gen S model will have this engine standard and the current engine in the S will be in the base model.

texas911

The 997 is a 911, a 911 for the 21st century. Those that nostalgically wax about the early 911's being lighter smaller whatever, try using it as a daily driver in the framework of today. Not that great a car. Porsche's philosophy has always been making the 911 an everyday sports car. Mission accomplished with the 997.

Graygoose997

+1

Mike in CA

Possible, but unlikely. The current S has .2L displacement, 22lb/ft of torque, and 40 HP more than the base model. The new GTS has the same displacement and torque as the S and only 23 more HP. In other words, there's not enough difference between the S and GTS to differentiate a base and S model.

If the GTS engine is the new S motor, then the base car will have something less than the current S powerplant, IMO. Or, an even better solution, the new S will have more than 408 HP.

slicky rick

i will speculate that the 991 will have horsepower rating closer to the 450hp of the current gt3. Just as Porsche has made the buyers of the S now feel bad with the gts, Porsche will make buyers of the 997 feel bad with the 991's. Porsche will keep us wanting the get latest Porsche. the gap between the 993 and 996 models are the exception which makes the 993 a special model.

Handoogies

This power race is yet to be seen. Anything over 500 hp imo is completely impractical on roads, and incontrollable by most on a track. Porsche are making consumer cars, not drag racers, i see hp for base models peaking out around 420 for the next 10years, anything more would push porsche into the "exotic" category, which they dont want. Other models on the other hand, i see a rediculous 1000hp gt2 by 2008

Handoogies

Oops i meant 2018

rodsky

I dont think it will be that high. The current S has 385HP. Last S had 355HP. I'd look for next one to have 415-420HP.

kosmo

F it. just put in the 450hp gt3 engine in ALL 911's and get the car under 3000lbs.