KrazyK

Wow, this thread has had more twists and turns than the road that destroyed Cuda's engine. All the input and suggestions have been great and looks like he may repair his 996.

Just keep in mind that the replacement price for the used engine is just the beginning. BEFORE you install it, I would address every common known issue. The most depressing aspect of this entire decision is to keep putting money into a depreciating asset.

For instance if the replacement engine's initial costs is $10,000 there is still the potential costs of needed PM for this engine to prevent its own destruction or you'll be right back where you were. It is very possible you could end up putting $12,000 to $15,000 (depending on how much you DIY) into a vehicle that will still be only worth $20,000 or less even if repaired.

The same old argument every time a higher mileage 996 has a CEF. Logic would seem to dictate sell the car as a loss, wash your hands of the M96NA and move to a TT but that's your decision of course.

I certainly do not envy the position you are in to make such a decision and wish you the best in however you proceed. These threads only cement what Imre stated long ago. That the 996 NA will become a relic only bought and used by a competent DIY'er.

5CHN3LL

Krazy, that comment adds zero value to this thread. I understand that you have an uncontrollable urge to talk **** about the 996, but damn, it's getting old. At least when you owned a 996, some of your posts were helpful. Now that you've successfully unloaded the object of your hatred on some poor rube, it seems like your contribution is now limited to inserting your collection of three-letter acronyms (most notably CEF) into every thread you can. You've become the Magic Johnson of Rennlist, sticking your poisonous opinion into every thread you can find.

Regardless of how many times you disassembled and reassembled your 996, it's fair to say that you spent your entire ownership period in fear of your car - beginning with the day you found a 996 and agonized whether it would be safe to drive home. That's fine - it's your prerogative to feel however you want to feel about a car that you clearly never should have purchased. However, the simple fact is that many of us actually LIKE the 996. We find them enjoyable to drive. I've driven a respectable number of cars, and I like my 996 the most. If something happens to my 996 and I'm financially able, I'll absolutely fix it.

We're all grown ups here. We understand depreciation. Cuda understands that a replacement engine has just as much a chance of failure as any other engine. Unlike you, however, we actually derive more pleasure from operating our vehicles than we do (a) taking them apart for no reason, and (b) wringing our hands about things that may go wrong. I've put thousands of dollars of repairs and upgrades into my 1996 Corvette. My C4 has the original LT-1 engine and (gasp!) an automatic transmission, further reducing the collectiblity of a not-especially-collectible Corvette. Point is, I don't care. If I blow up my 'Vette during an autocross, I'm going to fix it. I love the car because I find it unique - it offers some driving experience that I don't get in other cars. Such is the case with my 996 as well - it's an awesome mix of high-tech engineering with a minimal amount of high-tech intrusion into the driving experience. I love the feedback. I love the way it looks. I thoroughly enjoy the fact that I drive a car that 9-year-old me would have found freaking amazing.

Please, just for once, give it a f*****g rest.

Why don't you go type up all of your anti-M96 rhetoric in a new post and try to get it stickied? At least that way you could keep all of the vitriol in one place instead of smearing it all over every thread you come across.

alpine003

And you believe that?

Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should. With that said, I've done both picking up my kids and hauling bags of dirt in my frunk.

I guess different strokes for different folks though when it comes to extremes...

mklein9

Cuda, so sorry to hear of your misfortune. I am familiar with the area; have visited Fallbrook many times over the last few decades. Beautiful roads and scenery, but have never been there with a Porsche.

This story has so many twists and turns it has the makings of a Hollywood thriller, even with a happy ending for everyone involved. Amazing.

When Flat6 repaired my engine earlier this year, Jake recommended a few reliability enhancements that I decided to do including billet rods which eliminate the stock rod bolt failure mechanism(s). TBD whether that was in fact your engine's primary failure cause.

All the best and hope it works out in everyone's favor. Please keep us updated.

pfbz

What other reasonably priced performance car does better? Do you think a 100K+ mile Z06, M3, or STi doesn't have an equally good probability of eating a $10K service bill? How much would it cost if you holed a 993 case, not to mention the ridiculous asking prices these days?? A new $30K 'sporty' turbo car might have a warranty, unless you 'tune' it a bit too much and throw a piston.

All cars are holes in the pavement you shovel money into... Sports cars just particularly so. First year depreciation on a new car is typically about 19%, while 996's have remained virtually flat for the past year.

Sure, one might argue that aircooled cars aren't depreciating, in fact they are appreciating, but that needs to be looked at as a speculative investment, not a sports car. The 911SC I sold about 2 years ago is now worth about 50% more than when I sold it. But Apple stock is up 60% over that same period, and Tesla is up 600%. Those are all speculative investments....

Again, I maintain that despite the 9,542,861 failure modes of the 996, you'd be hard pressed to find a true sports car that has a risk/reward ratio even close to the 996's (though the Cayman is pretty damn close!)

Cuda911

Before deciding to go with this used motor, I considered many factors as to what I should do with my car:

1. Buy new motor - conclusion: too expensive.

2. Raby repair or reconstruction - conclusion: Repair not possible due to high mileage (per their internal policy). Reconstruction more than I want to spend and longer than I want to wait.

3. Try and find replacement broken case half, and rebuild. Was still considering this option. However, it has many inherent unknowns, since no idea what other internal damage may be present.

4. Sell car as a roller - conclusion: frankly, I figured this was going to be the avenue I was going to follow. Figured I'd get maybe 5K for it.

5. Buy a used motor - Initially, I wasn't planning this route, since a used motor is still expensive and has no guarantee. But, the motor I am buying has a good documented history. So, I think is worth the risk.

The other big factor I had to consider was: "what next?" After my first few days of 996 ownership, I recall thinking to myself, I just "need" to forever own a 911 (of any of its variants). Other than the potential engine failure issues, no one can argue that the 996 isn't an absolutely incredible car on every level.

So, my "what now?" options list included:

1. Buy another 996: OK, so, I could spend 20K +/- 5k and be back in 1 996. But, I would also have to budget another at least 5K to fix/replace stuff that I would feel needed fixing/replacing.

2. Buy a 997: The 997.1's are pretty reasonably priced now, but I really feel that if I am going to get a 997, I should get a 997.2. They are still rather expensive, so I would probably want to finance a good chunk of it, to avoid biting too much into emergency cash supply. But, with needing to get middle daughter a new car, and with two kid's worth of college tuition bills and third one starting college in a couple years, I'm loath to take on another longish-term financial obligation.

3. Get an older air-cooled - Actually, I had pretty much decided that this was the route I was going to go. At Cars & Coffee last weekend, a guy was selling an immaculate mid-80s 911 for about 25k. I don't know the guy and have no contact info., so I was planning to go back to C&C next month and see if he was there.

Then, we get to the "intangibles": I love my 996. The first time I sat in it when it was on the dealer's lot, it felt perfect. By the time I had driven it the 50 miles home, it didn't feel like some strange new car, it felt like it was built just for me. I love the blue exterior and the gray interior. I love the tip, because the way I use the car it makes it fit perfectly into my life style. When I'm driving around unfamiliar places looking for client's businesses, it's a PITA to try and decipher the Google Maps directions. The tip makes it 1,000 time easier when I can just slide it into "D" mode and then pay attention to finding my route. Sure, I'm in the minority wanting a tip, but it works for me. If I just had it for a "fun" car, then of course, I would prefer a manual.

So, how many Porsche owners (or ANY car enthusiasts, for that matter), have put more $$ into a car than the car was worth? I imagine I would see an awful lot of raised hands out there. Well, that shows how important the "intangible" factor of the equation is. The big intangible I am dealing with here is that I want "my" car back.

Once I put the new motor in, since it still will have all 627 inherent failure modes, can I eventually be back in this same position? Sure. I'm a science geek sort, big into facts, numbers, and stats. So, it seems to me that the odds of experiencing two catastrophic motor failures is small.

Is the decision I made to put in the used motor the "correct" one? Based on my musings posted above, I believe it is the correct one for me.

KNS

One can believe whatever one wants to believe. However, Porsche wants you to believe their 911 is an "Everyday Porsche" and they market it as such. People are then disillusioned when their car lets them down because it didn't live up to the advertisements. Shame on Porsche for failing its customers.

5CHN3LL

How many people here would not hesitate to plow $5K into a vet bill for their favorite pet? You don't see this as a wasted investment into a non-appreciating asset, you see it as an opportunity to extend the time you get to spend with something that, in one way or another, makes your life better.

You'd need to be a cold-hearted SOB to say, "No, just give Max the needle, he's not worth fixing." Right or wrong, rational or irrational, some of us feel the same way about our cars.

Byprodriver

I dunno, I found my pet & I can find another. That's frowned upon for Porsche's.

5CHN3LL

Yes, unlike a kitten, I imagine if you came across a 911 in a parking lot and decided to "adopt" it, there might be repercussions.

If you find this NOT to be the case, let me know. There are a few other cars I'd like to "re-home."

KrazyK

In this 16 page thread? You cant be serious.

I think you misunderstood the post. Every bit of it was fact. It is a very bad thing to happen to any 996 owner. If I were closer, I would offer to help him MOF proof and then install the replacement engine. These cars are interesting to work on and a challenge for those used to American iron and diesels. In fact, I couldn't have resisted taking the "blown" engine apart. Cuda could at least pull the sump cover for us.

Schnell, think more positive Bro!


And Cuda, not to start a new twist on the thread but did you say which oil you were using, change interval, and if you have ever seen the black or beige guide bits in dissected filter? Please forgive me if it was somewhere in the 235 thread replies.

alpine003

Ah, I get your angle. Yes I agree.

The commercial indicated I could fit 3 bags of dirt easily and I could only fit two. I felt really disappointed after that and went back to using my SUV to haul dirt from that point onward.

5CHN3LL

Oh, I am positive. I'm POSITIVE that your "CEF" and "MOF" bulls**t is getting very, very old.

This message is hidden because KrazyK is on your ignore list.

I waited far too long to do this...

JMLavoie

Bang-bloody on, Herr 5CHN3LL!
With these 911s, it is all about 'irrational intangibles' once you enjoy them, which is very easy to do, at depreciated purchase price to boot.

kromdom

I vote we (SoCal folks and nearby) schedule a BBQ in Cuda's house...a sign of solidarity to buoy his spirits and maybe even help him dismantle/dismember/untangle his engine