AndyK

How about in New Jersey Jake?

H964

well, porsche called me today and told to get lost!!
i am thinking about hiring an attorney.. any advice?

Quadcammer

Hiring an attorney to attempt to get Porsche to admit that the IMS is a design flaw will cost more than you could possibly hope to recover. They will keep you in court for years

1999Porsche911

Or...as unamerican as it may sound, you can take responsibility for the cost of your loss yourself and chaulk it up to bad luck and move on. Life is full of risks. Porsche warranteed the car for a specific amount of time and miles and it was your choice to take the risk beyond that point.

I feel bad for you, but I don't understand why Porsche should pay you for the fix. Talk with your wallet and move to a car from another manufacturer that makes a better quality vehicle and will stand behind their product.

Jake Raby

An Attorney can't repair your engine or replace it and a Gavel won't solve the problem. I haven't seen anyone effectively sue Porsche yet.Unless your car is still under Porsche's warranty attempts to have them take care of this are more than likely going to be an absolute waste of time.

I agree with 1999Porsche911, take it on the chin, suck it up and move on.

In New Jersey contact PowerTech and talk to Jake.

rpm's S2

I have seen people get their local dealer to come up with some of the cost - no doubt indirectly from PCNA. But these were cars that, while they were out of warranty, had been purchased from the dealer and serviced primarily at the dealer. In both instances the owners were also long-time PCA members. IIRC they got $2k-3k towards the cost of a new engine, installed by the dealer.

I know another owner whose C4S's IMS went just a few months after his warranty expired. A longtime customer of his local dealership (two new Porsches and several new Mercedes from the co-located MB dealer), he got them to pay the full cost of engine replacement. However, he is n army colonel, and the most insistent and persuasive person I know.

Jake Raby

Dealers will generally not pay for anything.. They'll discount a portion of their profit margin on an engine, but thats about it..

Palmbeacher

So you're saying that oil does not get past the seals? On the LN site, one of the problems they list is that oil gets past the bearing seals and contaminates/washes out the grease, and they recommend more frequent oil changes as well as using a higher viscosity and higher grade oil. I take it you disagree with them.

Here you seem to be saying that the oil does get in to the bearing. Now I'm totally confused. Even if it can't actually drain out during an oil change, it would seem that fresh oil getting in would displace the old oil. Or are you saying that oil can get past the seals going in, but not get out. How is that possible?

Yoops Racing

Attorney involvement .... very bad idea...no ROI period!
3 options:
look for a low cost replacement engine, have it installed, sell it move on
or sell it as is.
or fix it and keep it

I would not put anymore money into it than I had to...it will always be a losing proposition unless you will get many more years of enjoyment out of it after it is repaired and do not care about the economics of it.

Jake Raby

The OE bearing is not designed to be oil lubricated... It is hard to know exactly which comes first, the chicken or the egg in regard to the failure modes of bearings.

I also promote frequent oil changes, but those are not for the IMS, more for the lifters that become clogged.

Shark Attack

If you bought the car new, you got screwed and if it is out of warranty not really their issue either. If you bought it used, I have to agree, its no ones problem but your own. The only way you are going to get anywhere is to prove it is a safty hazzard and have the TSB step in and order a recall. That si the only hope on this one. Bottom line also is, if they are under warranty, they are fixing it with out hassle and doing it quickly. Not even a chance of warranty breach.

Mabuhay

I disagree. It would be cheaper for Porsche to meet him halfway. Case in point, when BMW owners decided to do "class action" regarding the rear subframe mounts on the E46 cars, BMW eventually stood behind their product. Also, the occurrence (I believe) of the rear subframe failures seem to be MUCH less than the 10% that is being reported for IMS failures.

Further, when early E46 M3's started spinning bearings, BMW eventually sucked it up and warrantied the engines to 100k miles (and dropped the rev limit to 7900 vs the original 8000). I can't believe 100 rpms can possibly make a difference, but apparently so. I.e. - no occurrence of engine failures for the Z3 and Z4 M Roadsters whose rpm limit is only 7900 for the same engine.

I think the moral of the story is that if enough people banded together, OR a pissed off lawyer who's had the issue happen to him/her would take up a class actions suit as his/her hobby, we'd most likely have some form of concession from Porsche.

Although I am not a lawyer (but I think I should have been which is another story) and that I have no IMS issues (KNOCK ON SOME SERIOUS WOOD), but if I were I would take this up as my hobby on "right" vs. "wrong". I.e. - I know manufacturers' responsibility must end somewhere... but engines grenading well before 50k miles or 5k miles is RIDICULOUS to happen within 10 years or so of ownership!!!

mikes_996

audi did the class action for their instrument clusters and timing belts braking on the TT's just recently....

BruceP

There have to be 300,000-ish M96 engines driving around out there, since as far back as the mid-1990s. Owned, initially at least, by very well-off Type-As, we might presume. And for all those cars and all those years, nobody has ever succeeded in certifying a class. I highly doubt that anybody is going to suddenly find a sympathetic jury now, when most of the fleet is no longer in the hands of original owners and a lot of current ones bought their cars for a song.

Either Porsche is fixing them and forcing owners to sign ironclad NDAs (in which case moaning about it publicly is a bad idea), or there simply aren't enough victims.

gerry100

Most Porsche drivers can be divided into two groups.

Those that buy or lease new cars -

Many who are not even enthusiasts but instead just go for the brand and status. If they had an IMS issue it was under warranty and quickly fixed. They've forgotten and moved on to new warranteed cars.

They are less likely to scour websites with the purpose of trying to maximize the value of their Porsche investments.

They pay the bills at PAG and are cherished and studied by the Management wonks.

Those that buy used-

The used car Enthusiasts-

Like me they are one Lottery ticket away from buying new. Instead we make careful purchases because the car represents a significant financial commitment.

They support resale values and the mystique of the brand. The wonks don't think about this group too much partially because they can't be quantified and don't pay the bills.

The wonks know that the M96 problem is diminishing every day as more engines die or get old.

I had a nice converstion with Porsche customer contact today. As expected, she could offer no specifics or data on the problem( I'm sure this data is not available to her).
She did offer that Porsche has offers relief on a case by case basis to this type of major problem.

It's apparent that the PAG strategy is to wait this one out.