i cant believe it happened to me!!! UPDATE!!
01-09-2010, 03:50 PM
#151
Porsche Nut
Rennlist Member
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When my IMS failed (Spring 2009 with <30K miles), I got a replacement engine with "all the upgrades" (according to the head mechanic) and was told they are much more robust. Does anyone have any information as to what updates there were for the IMS?
01-09-2010, 04:03 PM
#152
But it's now 42deg in Miami and raining, so the car doesn't move. Having said that, I will be doing the IMS retrofit, new RMS seal either way since I see it as an upgrade from what Porsche handed down to us. on the LN site, the billet oil filter adapter and magnetic drain plug also look like great mods too.
2000 996 Cab 10K miles
01-09-2010, 07:23 PM
#153
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From one of the British Porsche car magazines currently on the rack (I forget which) today, it says that the IMS failures tend to be in the 10% range!!!! This is the magazine with the "996" as a feature cover. That's crazy! There definitely should be some sort of class action suit with that much failure!
01-09-2010, 08:33 PM
#154
Burning Brakes
Yes... But few dealers are. In 2009 more companies took the plunge to build them for the first time and I gladly assisted them..
01-09-2010, 08:35 PM
#155
Instructor
A truly sad state of affairs.
however, my first P-car was a 1972 991S. I got it, drove it up from NYC towards Albany, and got 35 mi before the chain tensioner slipped. Did about the same damage; took out 1/2 the engine in the days prior to extended warranties. I still have a connecting rod as a paperweight.
I know this is no consolation, but since then, 35yrs of P-cars, nothing that bad has happened to me. yet. i drive a 2002 C4S.
I did read on a blog, the failure rate is fairly low; although spectacular results occur when it does.
I empathize and continue to live on the banks of DeNile.
JB
however, my first P-car was a 1972 991S. I got it, drove it up from NYC towards Albany, and got 35 mi before the chain tensioner slipped. Did about the same damage; took out 1/2 the engine in the days prior to extended warranties. I still have a connecting rod as a paperweight.
I know this is no consolation, but since then, 35yrs of P-cars, nothing that bad has happened to me. yet. i drive a 2002 C4S.
I did read on a blog, the failure rate is fairly low; although spectacular results occur when it does.
I empathize and continue to live on the banks of DeNile.
JB
01-09-2010, 09:03 PM
#156
Addict
Rennlist Member
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From one of the British Porsche car magazines currently on the rack (I forget which) today, it says that the IMS failures tend to be in the 10% range!!!! This is the magazine with the "996" as a feature cover. That's crazy! There definitely should be some sort of class action suit with that much failure!
01-10-2010, 12:54 AM
#157
Three Wheelin'
Were all screwed. Just kidding. I've owned pcars for over 20 years and have heard all sorts of potential drama on every model i've owned and...knock on wood have dodged the bullet every time. Worst thing that I've had happen was a timing belt break on a (thank God) non-interference 928 motor. I know there are those that are thinking i'm due for a big bit of karma readjustment but what the hell, deal with the issue if and when it happens. Otherwise foot to the floor delicious madness. Is it just me or do the C4S seem to have the most issues with IMS failure?
01-10-2010, 01:09 AM
#158
Instructor
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IMS issues
IMS:
Wow, this is way I traded my 99C2 just a few weeks ago. The IMS issue truly freaked me out. I really could not sleep at night - this thread would have put me in a padded room for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ83wUhXoL4
German Engineering - remember that Ad so well......Is this what they ment?
I will get another 996 perhap a TT. Now I hear that the 996TT is not affected by this IMS issue (?) Jake - please chime in!
Or I will just have to get the newest 996/997 I can afford and just ship it right to Flat6 to have all the rennovations done to the engine - perhaps Jake will cut us all a group buy on modding our engines to 400HP and make them as bullet proof as an Accord...LOL
Two years ago I bought my first 911 (First German car too) always been a Honda/Acura driver. This did kinda burst my bubble of what owning a German car was all about. No doubt the 996 is an awsome car in may ways. But at least the engine should be to most durable part in it. With out that what are we left with?
Really, this is sad new regarding a car that is suppost to be represent Deutschland!
I will certainly get another Porsche - If not a 996/997 perhaps a vintage 80's era with all the updates already completed.
99C2
Wow, this is way I traded my 99C2 just a few weeks ago. The IMS issue truly freaked me out. I really could not sleep at night - this thread would have put me in a padded room for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ83wUhXoL4
German Engineering - remember that Ad so well......Is this what they ment?
I will get another 996 perhap a TT. Now I hear that the 996TT is not affected by this IMS issue (?) Jake - please chime in!
Or I will just have to get the newest 996/997 I can afford and just ship it right to Flat6 to have all the rennovations done to the engine - perhaps Jake will cut us all a group buy on modding our engines to 400HP and make them as bullet proof as an Accord...LOL
Two years ago I bought my first 911 (First German car too) always been a Honda/Acura driver. This did kinda burst my bubble of what owning a German car was all about. No doubt the 996 is an awsome car in may ways. But at least the engine should be to most durable part in it. With out that what are we left with?
Really, this is sad new regarding a car that is suppost to be represent Deutschland!
I will certainly get another Porsche - If not a 996/997 perhaps a vintage 80's era with all the updates already completed.
99C2
01-10-2010, 01:13 PM
#160
Rennlist Member
Jake, I assume you are flat-6 innovations? I have been emailing a guy named charlie regarding the retro fit. But I do have a few questions abotu knowing if the current bearing is going to fail.
The shop I am going to have do the bearing is a 2 hr drive away. Its an Indy shop but the tech that will do the bearing moonlights there and he is the CGT tech at the local stealer. It sure would suck if it failed on the way to the shop for the work. Any thing I can look at to assure its going to make that trip?
Leaks? Currently the car has 0 oil leaks.
Can I cut the oil filter apart and look for anything in there that may tell me the bearing is going?
Now here is another idea I have, and I cant answer it becasue I dont know the engine. I have an endoscope, Yes the same one the doc sticks in your A$$ to check your prostate.... with the oil drained can I inspect the bearing with it, via the oil drain hole??
The car has been well maintained. Every p-dealer service has been done up to 90K. The PO claims nothing but synthetic oil has ever been in the car. It has 103,000 miles.
The shop I am going to have do the bearing is a 2 hr drive away. Its an Indy shop but the tech that will do the bearing moonlights there and he is the CGT tech at the local stealer. It sure would suck if it failed on the way to the shop for the work. Any thing I can look at to assure its going to make that trip?
Leaks? Currently the car has 0 oil leaks.
Can I cut the oil filter apart and look for anything in there that may tell me the bearing is going?
Now here is another idea I have, and I cant answer it becasue I dont know the engine. I have an endoscope, Yes the same one the doc sticks in your A$$ to check your prostate.... with the oil drained can I inspect the bearing with it, via the oil drain hole??
The car has been well maintained. Every p-dealer service has been done up to 90K. The PO claims nothing but synthetic oil has ever been in the car. It has 103,000 miles.
01-10-2010, 01:36 PM
#161
Burning Brakes
Yet again, super maintenance will not help with the IMS failure. This is because the bearing is sealed from the engine's lubrication. When you change the engine's oil you are NOT changing the oil that comes into contact with the IMS bearing.
You have three choices with your 996:
- Not worry about the IMS bearing failure or that it will effect your engine.
- Take preventive measures to retrofit the IMS bearing prior to failure while updating the RMS.
- Just enjoy the car and accept the fact that the IMS is the biggest weakness within the engine.
Remember, you own a Porsche and the car is meant to be driven and enjoyed. At no point should someone be afraid to drive their car and to some that means a retrofit and to others that means just not worrying about it.
Just be happy that we were able to do what Porsche said was impossible and create a method of bearing extraction for all models earlier than 2006 that allowed the retrofit to be applied. This time last year there was no preventive in existance for the dual row IMS bearing equipped engines.
The course of action or worry is up to each owner of an M96 equipped Porsche. Its my job to ensure the knowledge on the subject is correct and to help as many installers as possible provide retrofit services.
You have three choices with your 996:
- Not worry about the IMS bearing failure or that it will effect your engine.
- Take preventive measures to retrofit the IMS bearing prior to failure while updating the RMS.
- Just enjoy the car and accept the fact that the IMS is the biggest weakness within the engine.
Remember, you own a Porsche and the car is meant to be driven and enjoyed. At no point should someone be afraid to drive their car and to some that means a retrofit and to others that means just not worrying about it.
Just be happy that we were able to do what Porsche said was impossible and create a method of bearing extraction for all models earlier than 2006 that allowed the retrofit to be applied. This time last year there was no preventive in existance for the dual row IMS bearing equipped engines.
The course of action or worry is up to each owner of an M96 equipped Porsche. Its my job to ensure the knowledge on the subject is correct and to help as many installers as possible provide retrofit services.
01-10-2010, 02:21 PM
#162
Rennlist Member
Yet again, super maintenance will not help with the IMS failure. This is because the bearing is sealed from the engine's lubrication. When you change the engine's oil you are NOT changing the oil that comes into contact with the IMS bearing.
You have three choices with your 996:
- Not worry about the IMS bearing failure or that it will effect your engine.
- Take preventive measures to retrofit the IMS bearing prior to failure while updating the RMS.
- Just enjoy the car and accept the fact that the IMS is the biggest weakness within the engine.
Remember, you own a Porsche and the car is meant to be driven and enjoyed. At no point should someone be afraid to drive their car and to some that means a retrofit and to others that means just not worrying about it.
Just be happy that we were able to do what Porsche said was impossible and create a method of bearing extraction for all models earlier than 2006 that allowed the retrofit to be applied. This time last year there was no preventive in existance for the dual row IMS bearing equipped engines.
The course of action or worry is up to each owner of an M96 equipped Porsche. Its my job to ensure the knowledge on the subject is correct and to help as many installers as possible provide retrofit services.
You have three choices with your 996:
- Not worry about the IMS bearing failure or that it will effect your engine.
- Take preventive measures to retrofit the IMS bearing prior to failure while updating the RMS.
- Just enjoy the car and accept the fact that the IMS is the biggest weakness within the engine.
Remember, you own a Porsche and the car is meant to be driven and enjoyed. At no point should someone be afraid to drive their car and to some that means a retrofit and to others that means just not worrying about it.
Just be happy that we were able to do what Porsche said was impossible and create a method of bearing extraction for all models earlier than 2006 that allowed the retrofit to be applied. This time last year there was no preventive in existance for the dual row IMS bearing equipped engines.
The course of action or worry is up to each owner of an M96 equipped Porsche. Its my job to ensure the knowledge on the subject is correct and to help as many installers as possible provide retrofit services.
01-10-2010, 02:37 PM
#163
Track Day
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Are you having issues now? If so, you should not drive it anywhere. If not, why do you assume it will not make it 120 miles? That's not even a full tank of gas. If there is an issue or you are too afraid to drive the car for whatever reason, have it towed. Otherwise, make the drive. Jack has no way of knowing whether your car will make it or not. When the IMS goes, it goes quick (in a small percentage of cars) and usually without much warning...
01-10-2010, 03:07 PM
#164
Burning Brakes
If the engine is making any sounds, do NOT fire it up. I haven't read any of your posts that state any of the IMSF symptoms thus far.
When a bearing has began to fail, makes noise or has IMS drip syndrome (very nasty black oil discharge from the bellhouse area) the engine's life can be measured in seconds or minutes. Once the bearing gets bad enough to alter cam timing by 16 degrees the valves will contact the pistons and the engine looks like 3 mile island inside all at once. I have one of the worst IMSF engines we have seen thus far ready to come apart this week, wait till you see these pics!
Shark, I answered as many of your questions as I can here on Rennlist.
When a bearing has began to fail, makes noise or has IMS drip syndrome (very nasty black oil discharge from the bellhouse area) the engine's life can be measured in seconds or minutes. Once the bearing gets bad enough to alter cam timing by 16 degrees the valves will contact the pistons and the engine looks like 3 mile island inside all at once. I have one of the worst IMSF engines we have seen thus far ready to come apart this week, wait till you see these pics!
Shark, I answered as many of your questions as I can here on Rennlist.
01-10-2010, 03:09 PM
#165
Race Director
Yet again, super maintenance will not help with the IMS failure. This is because the bearing is sealed from the engine's lubrication. When you change the engine's oil you are NOT changing the oil that comes into contact with the IMS bearing.
You have three choices with your 996:
- Not worry about the IMS bearing failure or that it will effect your engine.
- Take preventive measures to retrofit the IMS bearing prior to failure while updating the RMS.
- Just enjoy the car and accept the fact that the IMS is the biggest weakness within the engine.
Remember, you own a Porsche and the car is meant to be driven and enjoyed. At no point should someone be afraid to drive their car and to some that means a retrofit and to others that means just not worrying about it.
Just be happy that we were able to do what Porsche said was impossible and create a method of bearing extraction for all models earlier than 2006 that allowed the retrofit to be applied. This time last year there was no preventive in existance for the dual row IMS bearing equipped engines.
The course of action or worry is up to each owner of an M96 equipped Porsche. Its my job to ensure the knowledge on the subject is correct and to help as many installers as possible provide retrofit services.
You have three choices with your 996:
- Not worry about the IMS bearing failure or that it will effect your engine.
- Take preventive measures to retrofit the IMS bearing prior to failure while updating the RMS.
- Just enjoy the car and accept the fact that the IMS is the biggest weakness within the engine.
Remember, you own a Porsche and the car is meant to be driven and enjoyed. At no point should someone be afraid to drive their car and to some that means a retrofit and to others that means just not worrying about it.
Just be happy that we were able to do what Porsche said was impossible and create a method of bearing extraction for all models earlier than 2006 that allowed the retrofit to be applied. This time last year there was no preventive in existance for the dual row IMS bearing equipped engines.
The course of action or worry is up to each owner of an M96 equipped Porsche. Its my job to ensure the knowledge on the subject is correct and to help as many installers as possible provide retrofit services.
While what you say is true: The bearing is sealed and the oil does not lubricate the bearing, I would suggest that:
More frequent oil changes help keep the acid levels in the oil low. This can only help sustain the bearing seal, keep it intact and thus able to retain the grease in the IMS bearing.
In the event the seal does become compromised the bearing will receive fresh oil.
Old oil of course picks up considerable loads of water and unburned fuel. Upon engine shut down the oil whever it resides begins to stratify, the various liquid contaminates separating out.
This is true in the oil sump, and the hollow IM shaft. This oil with its strafied layers of acidic compounds of course comes in contact with the bearing's seal.
Over time this can only negatively affect the seal. (In the sump I believe it can also degrade the rubber like material that acts as oil pan baffles to help keep the oil around the oil tube pick up.)
Then to make matters worse -- once the bearing seal no longer able to keep the oil out of the bearing -- this old oil also puddles or collects in the bearing where the acids can then attack the bearing metal with eventually disasterous results.
By more frequent oil/filter changes the acid levels in the oil are kept lower. This can only help prolong engine life. Additionally for those of us that keep our cars a long time more frequent oil changes help prevent wear and degradation in other areas of the engine as well.
Sincerely,
Macster.