i cant believe it happened to me!!! UPDATE!!
01-08-2010, 11:34 AM
#106
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01-08-2010, 11:39 AM
#108
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Boy, this is discouraging! I was clinging to the hope that if I don't track my car, I wont have this issue.
I really wish there was actual data from Porsche showing how many IMS falures occurred over the life of the M96. Is it 1%? 10%?
We are lucky most 996/997 owners aren't Rennlist members - otherwise we would never be able to sell our cars!
I really wish there was actual data from Porsche showing how many IMS falures occurred over the life of the M96. Is it 1%? 10%?
We are lucky most 996/997 owners aren't Rennlist members - otherwise we would never be able to sell our cars!
I think what we need to do is to take the Rennlist population of 996 engines (+ all other cars that have the same engine). And then take a sampling of how many of those failed due to IMS. We will need to subtract out the number of members that "specifically joined Rennlist to get info on the IMS/RMS issue". This would skew the numbers.
This would probably put us in the ballpark...
01-08-2010, 11:42 AM
#109
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I think what we need to do is to take the Rennlist population of 996 engines (+ all other cars that have the same engine). And then take a sampling of how many of those failed due to IMS. We will need to subtract out the number of members that "specifically joined Rennlist to get info on the IMS/RMS issue". This would skew the numbers.
This would probably put us in the ballpark...
This would probably put us in the ballpark...
They may tell you... or they may not...
Still, we will never ever come close to an accurate figure unless there's a class action lawsuit and the court demands Porsche to release the figure.
It's a shame.
01-08-2010, 11:53 AM
#111
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Just wanted to say I am sorry to see another reported failure
I hope things work out for its engine replacement. I would also hope for help from Porsche but sadly wouldnt hold my breath.
I hope things work out for its engine replacement. I would also hope for help from Porsche but sadly wouldnt hold my breath.
01-08-2010, 11:56 AM
#112
Race Director
well guys, i got a call this afternoon and indeed, i need a motor!! IMS !! keep in mind, its an 02 C4s, 65k miles, all documented maintenance including a new clutch and real main seal at 60K. everything was up to par. never tracked, never abused, regular driver!! this can happen anytime to any car!! so those of you who think this is because of the drivers or bla bla... just dont get it. the guy at the dealership told me there were 6 cars in at the time i was there for IMS failures, 3 boxters, 2 996s, and a 997!!! this is a real flaw that one of the most successful sport car manufacturer has ignored for so many years!! i called porsche and filed a claim to ask for a contribution, honestly, the lady told up front that my chances are not good, so i am just waiting for an answer in the next couple of days to make a decision!!
honestly, i have always admired and loved all the porsches i have owned, this just changed it all
honestly, i have always admired and loved all the porsches i have owned, this just changed it all
Says he had a 986 Boxster in with its second IMS. The 1st engine failed under warranty and was replaced. This one failed out of warranty and owner understandably upset. As far as service manager knew owner took good care of the car and it was not abused or misused.
Porsche wanted owner to authorize an engine removal and tear down with a dollar limit of several thousand dollars before it would possibly agree to any good wiill on the engine replacement. And there was no guarantee of any good will. Car owner doubly upset.
Also, another Boxster owner who's car also suffered what was an IMS failure had just pulled his car out of the dealer's service department rather than pay the several thousand dollar engine removal and tear down charge before Porsche would extend, if it did extend, any goodwill towards a new engine.
Told service manager I would not have his job for all the tea in China.
Seems the dollar amount Porsche asks for engine removal and tear down before it extends any goodwill is all over the map. I've been told the amount ranges from several thousand dollars to in one case $5K.
Also, I've been told even this "offer" is not extended to everyone. Those service managers I've talked to say there appears to be no pattern as to who gets the offer or who doesn't.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Last edited by Macster; 01-08-2010 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Typos.
01-08-2010, 12:02 PM
#114
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Has anyone seen this website. This guy is trying or was trying to do something
http://www.porscheenginefailure.com/
http://www.porscheenginefailure.com/
geesh...that hits home.. that's my local Porsche dealer.
01-08-2010, 12:04 PM
#115
Race Director
Let me speak from personal experience here. A lot of us have purchased early 996s because of the low price. Many, perhaps most of us can not justify 80k or more for a sports car. But a ten year old 996 for 20K or less is well within reach. These (used) cars are a bargain. Well, at least until the engine blows up. In my case, I bought a high mileage (about 100K) car that looked not too much different than a new one, drove great and all was well until the IMS failure occurred ten months and 6000 miles later.
As to WHY people are buying these cars? They don't know any better. Who would expect a Porsche engine to blow up? Porsches win races all over the world, don't they? Most new buyers are not on Rennlist, or any other forum. I had already purchased my 996 before I learned about RMS and IMS issues. Of course, even after I had learned about it, I never expected the failure to occur to me. After all, the engine had run nicely for 100,000 miles, why should it expire now?
....Rickker
As to WHY people are buying these cars? They don't know any better. Who would expect a Porsche engine to blow up? Porsches win races all over the world, don't they? Most new buyers are not on Rennlist, or any other forum. I had already purchased my 996 before I learned about RMS and IMS issues. Of course, even after I had learned about it, I never expected the failure to occur to me. After all, the engine had run nicely for 100,000 miles, why should it expire now?
....Rickker
If you buy a M96/7 based car, you are taking a well known risk. Either you hedge that risk with a warranty, you try to eliminate the risk by buying the modification kit from LN, or you leave your position unhedged and risk losing $10k.
You need to look at the expected value and your own comfort level.
Me? I'd just buy the damn fix-it kit, and stop worrying. Being able to drive my car without wondering when its gonna blow is worth way more than $1500.
P.S., Porsche doesn't owe you a thing. They provided a warranty and stood by it. If you have engine failure later on, so be it. The only way to stick it to them is to vote with your wallet and not buy another porsche.
01-08-2010, 12:08 PM
#116
Good Point
Playing devil's advocate, where does the responsibility end for a manufacturer? The 944s had a problem with oil starvation in hard turns and spinning #2 bearing. The air cooled, 911’s broke head bolts and pulled threads from the block. Did Porsche recall or warranty weak head bolts/blocks for cars 6-10 years old? Now broken bolts or a spun bearing in most cases don't CATO engines like the IMS failure does. But these short falls by Porsche has opened up private companies to come up with repairs and upgrades that may have never opened if Porsche warranted all these cars for ever.
Rick
99 996C4
87 944S
Rick
99 996C4
87 944S
They all have had some issues. I dare say Porsche is not alone in this. Any of you ever read the tech talk portion of Roundel? You hear the same types of things about BMW's.
Some of these cars are getting old, many will make many will not. Personally I look at it as an opportunity for an upgrade. As along as your in there make it bigger. better, faster! After all that is the American way and your supporting the economy.
Lon
01-08-2010, 12:18 PM
#117
Burning Brakes
The record for a low mileage engine having an IMS failure is 2K miles and that came in about 8 months ago. The driver bought the car new (98 Boxster) and only drove it to the club for Golf on Saturday mornings.
The max has been an IMS failure at 188K. Here are some carnage pics from other aspects of the engine..
The max has been an IMS failure at 188K. Here are some carnage pics from other aspects of the engine..
Last edited by Jake Raby; 01-11-2015 at 11:56 PM.
01-08-2010, 12:21 PM
#118
Race Car
Does anyone else notice that a large number of the Porsche's at the Dealer and Indy's need repair? Call me crazy, but isn't that as statistically significant as finding sick people at the Doctor's office or hospital?
01-08-2010, 12:32 PM
#119
Rennlist Member
I'm sick and tired of the hand holding consumers expect now a days. Apparently no one reads their mortgage documents and no one researches car purchases. If you buy a car without researching potential major failures, you are taking a risk. If you want to assume that because its a porsche, you won't have an engine failure, then you are again taking a risk.
If you buy a M96/7 based car, you are taking a well known risk. Either you hedge that risk with a warranty, you try to eliminate the risk by buying the modification kit from LN, or you leave your position unhedged and risk losing $10k.
You need to look at the expected value and your own comfort level.
Me? I'd just buy the damn fix-it kit, and stop worrying. Being able to drive my car without wondering when its gonna blow is worth way more than $1500.
P.S., Porsche doesn't owe you a thing. They provided a warranty and stood by it. If you have engine failure later on, so be it. The only way to stick it to them is to vote with your wallet and not buy another porsche.
If you buy a M96/7 based car, you are taking a well known risk. Either you hedge that risk with a warranty, you try to eliminate the risk by buying the modification kit from LN, or you leave your position unhedged and risk losing $10k.
You need to look at the expected value and your own comfort level.
Me? I'd just buy the damn fix-it kit, and stop worrying. Being able to drive my car without wondering when its gonna blow is worth way more than $1500.
P.S., Porsche doesn't owe you a thing. They provided a warranty and stood by it. If you have engine failure later on, so be it. The only way to stick it to them is to vote with your wallet and not buy another porsche.
So to me you are right, They already paid me using the PO's money. I am going to be into a 99MO, 5-second car with an aero package, including Tax, title and tags AND the new ceramic bearing for under 20K. You are right they own me nothing. They used the PO's money
01-08-2010, 12:37 PM
#120
Race Director
I agree with you to a point. I just bought one knowing about the issue. I do plan on taking the right action to prevent it. In that case, You are right, They owe me 0. But the poor owner before me that just took a bath in resale value, I think Porsche owes him about 7K.
modern cars hold no value