i cant believe it happened to me!!! UPDATE!!
01-13-2010, 03:29 PM
#244
May be irrelevant at this point but this question sticks in my mind-
Does Porsche do life cycle testing on their motors?
Based on my involvement with developing parts for the big three I recall that a minor change requires dozens of engines to be run for hundreds of thousands of hours under various loads and conditions.
A completely new powerplant multiplies this effort many times. Any failure is analyzed, with a complete failure even more exhaustively.
It seems that back in 94-95 , the engineers didn't test enough, missed something or that management decided to go ahead despite the results.
Development of a completely new engine is one of the biggest expenses a carmaker faces but that's no exceuse for PAG.
Back in the days of the Vega, GM used customers to run these tests but except for that instance , I don't think we've seen any major car company sign off on an engine with a flaw that would cause a significant number to disntegrate at less tha 100K miles.
If they did test as they should have, I believe they knew about this
Does Porsche do life cycle testing on their motors?
Based on my involvement with developing parts for the big three I recall that a minor change requires dozens of engines to be run for hundreds of thousands of hours under various loads and conditions.
A completely new powerplant multiplies this effort many times. Any failure is analyzed, with a complete failure even more exhaustively.
It seems that back in 94-95 , the engineers didn't test enough, missed something or that management decided to go ahead despite the results.
Development of a completely new engine is one of the biggest expenses a carmaker faces but that's no exceuse for PAG.
Back in the days of the Vega, GM used customers to run these tests but except for that instance , I don't think we've seen any major car company sign off on an engine with a flaw that would cause a significant number to disntegrate at less tha 100K miles.
If they did test as they should have, I believe they knew about this
01-13-2010, 03:47 PM
#245
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In 2008 I "lost" function of 3rd gear on my C4S Tip, so it went to my local dealer. After waiting for over 2 hours on pins & needles and after $200 the prognosis was that my transmission had an internal leak and I needed to replace it at a cost of over $11k all-in (!). So after beginning an internet search for reman units I decided to try a local indy shop which knows 996s & Tips (my mechanic doesn't). The real problem? I apparently had a gummed-up cable which was causing the Tip control module to malfunction, and the issue was easily resolved. Funny thing was, the shifter had seemed a little sticky ever since I got the car but I figured it was normal.
I decided to return to the dealer, speak to the service manager about their gross misdiagnosis and demand some sort of compensation. His reply? "We would have eventually found the real cause, ONCE THE TRANSMISSION WAS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING REPLACED" (!). I was compensated for their error & left satisfied.
H964, your obvious sense of relief made me remember my own...and again it's all due to our indy guys who don't stick to the factory diagnostic rules but who create their own as the case warrants.
01-13-2010, 04:01 PM
#246
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Wow! A new transmission costs $11k ?? Holy CR@P!
Seems when something goes wrong with a major component on our 996's, the dealer's first response is to just replace the part, no matter how much it costs!
Seems when something goes wrong with a major component on our 996's, the dealer's first response is to just replace the part, no matter how much it costs!
01-13-2010, 04:15 PM
#247
It is my experience that P-car dealerships in Germany have a very high standard in connection with service, maintenance and customer support. (At least a very high standard compared to my own country's P-car dealerships.)
Anyone in Germany to chime in on this? - I might be considering transporting my car to Berlin for the next service as the service level at my own dealerships isn't satisfying enough.
Anyone in Germany to chime in on this? - I might be considering transporting my car to Berlin for the next service as the service level at my own dealerships isn't satisfying enough.
01-13-2010, 04:17 PM
#248
Rennlist Member
That is not surprising considering that dealerships are profit centers. As long as they did not screw up something along the way on the car. Porsche for warranty work or owner of said car would give them money; the more complicated the work, the more profit.
01-13-2010, 04:31 PM
#249
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Yes, because that's what their factory diagnostic guides instruct them to do, even if it's not the best answer.
01-13-2010, 04:42 PM
#250
Burning Brakes
Any chance you'd be willing to ship that failed bearing to us for evaluation? Not many cases where the bearing has failed leave the victim with a salvageable engine as very few are caught in time or people just keep on driving.
More good news:
We were in the middle of a preventive IMSR today and ended up pulling a bearing that had just began to fail!!! Its the first bearing I have seen that was caught this early on in the failure process. The permanent lubricant inside the bearing had just been compromised and due to that is smells like crap! The IMS tube was filled with fresh oil, the same color as what was in the crankcase, not the nasty black oil that we normally find, meaning this oil had very recently made its way past the seals in the bearing and filled the tube.
The best part is the fact that the inner race had just started to seize and spin on the bearing flange surface. It did this just enough to end up with metal transfer between the two that is very slight, but proves the bearing was caught in the middle of failure.
I learned something new about this failure today and have just out of the blue started to notice a trend that I haven't noted before.
The Owner noted a knocking sound and wanted it looked into and the engine made low power on it's initial chassis dyno evaluation before we took it apart, both are indicators of an imminent issue. I suppose we are lucky this one didn't fail on the dyno during the pre-procedure evaluation!
I can't wait to cut this bearing apart tonight! This will make for some very good conversation and understanding.. My article and DVD just got better!
01-13-2010, 05:00 PM
#251
Rennlist Member
Yes they are in Birdsboro, that about 3 mile from reading
01-13-2010, 05:04 PM
#252
Rennlist Member
01-13-2010, 05:07 PM
#253
Race Director
01-13-2010, 05:09 PM
#254
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
the shop is called J & W Motorsports, located in Doral http://jwmotorsportsracing.com/
he said mine was the cleanest failure and showed me another 996 targa engine , same failure but worse
he was confident about the results and i must say the guy (William) was a real enthusiast and had answers for everything.
in my situation the bolt holding the bearing broke in half!!
didnt think about taking a picture but it really looked no different that the pictures that have been displayed here.
will keep you posted on the results, hopefully by the weekend
he said mine was the cleanest failure and showed me another 996 targa engine , same failure but worse
he was confident about the results and i must say the guy (William) was a real enthusiast and had answers for everything.
in my situation the bolt holding the bearing broke in half!!
didnt think about taking a picture but it really looked no different that the pictures that have been displayed here.
will keep you posted on the results, hopefully by the weekend