Prices Keep Drifting Up
#4876
True, and those numbers bode well for the GT and Turbo cars' economic future if it were 20 - 30 years ago.
Not so sure now with the increasing pressure world-wide to phase out internal combustion engines. We will see, but I didn't buy my car as a potential investment, so I really don't care what its market value is or will be 20 years from now.
Not so sure now with the increasing pressure world-wide to phase out internal combustion engines. We will see, but I didn't buy my car as a potential investment, so I really don't care what its market value is or will be 20 years from now.
#4877
There’s tons of data out there, but it all seems to boil down to around 3K each for both 993 & 996 Turbo (manual) coupes in US, and around 4K 997’s (Turbo manual coupes)
Yes that’s 3,000 each 993 & 996 (NOT 30,000!)
Even the 33% greater 997 production number is still tiny compared to recent Turbo production numbers; which are ALL automatics BTW
Anyone who still thinks the 996/997 Turbo manual coupe is patently not an extremely rare & collectible 911, is either incapable of reading, and/or doing first grade math
IE it’s not (just) the Mezger, it’s the production numbers!!
THIS is why Mezger manual coupes are ALL freaking soaring right now: the “invisible hand” favors rarity, whether the buyers even recognize it yet, or not. The “market” discerned there are the same number of 993 & 996 Turbo manual coupes before we even did, and is ultimately correcting itself
Amazing
Yes that’s 3,000 each 993 & 996 (NOT 30,000!)
Even the 33% greater 997 production number is still tiny compared to recent Turbo production numbers; which are ALL automatics BTW
Anyone who still thinks the 996/997 Turbo manual coupe is patently not an extremely rare & collectible 911, is either incapable of reading, and/or doing first grade math
IE it’s not (just) the Mezger, it’s the production numbers!!
THIS is why Mezger manual coupes are ALL freaking soaring right now: the “invisible hand” favors rarity, whether the buyers even recognize it yet, or not. The “market” discerned there are the same number of 993 & 996 Turbo manual coupes before we even did, and is ultimately correcting itself
Amazing
Last edited by bdronsick; 01-21-2022 at 10:10 AM.
#4878
There’s tons of data out there, but it all seems to boil down to around 3K each for both 993 & 996 Turbo (manual) coupes in US, and around 4K 997’s (Turbo manual coupes)
Yes that’s 3,000 993 & 996 (NOT 30,000!)
Even the 33% greater 997 production number is still tiny compared to recent Turbo production numbers; which are ALL automatics BTW
Anyone who still thinks the 996/997 Turbo manual coupe is patently not an extremely rare & collectible 911, is either incapable of reading, and/or doing first grade math
IE it’s not (just) the Mezger, it’s the production numbers!!
Yes that’s 3,000 993 & 996 (NOT 30,000!)
Even the 33% greater 997 production number is still tiny compared to recent Turbo production numbers; which are ALL automatics BTW
Anyone who still thinks the 996/997 Turbo manual coupe is patently not an extremely rare & collectible 911, is either incapable of reading, and/or doing first grade math
IE it’s not (just) the Mezger, it’s the production numbers!!
Why? Because IMO the turbo was never a unloved car. Why does this matter? Because unloved cars get driven to DEATH, repaired poorly if at all. It becomes a supply issue at this point.
996 base model and the E36 M3 are on the exact same trajectory.
Base model 996 > 997 Base
Turbo 996 < Turbo 997
#4879
There are only 2/3 as many 996 Turbo manual coupes as 997 in the US
That ultimate rarity is irrevocably written on the wall; regardless which was originally more loved
But your point is well taken, and I would also remind that there were overall about 25K more 997 manufactured than 996 worldwide
996 is far less numerous than 997 regardless of flavor!
And 996 does offer some delicious flavors
That ultimate rarity is irrevocably written on the wall; regardless which was originally more loved
But your point is well taken, and I would also remind that there were overall about 25K more 997 manufactured than 996 worldwide
996 is far less numerous than 997 regardless of flavor!
And 996 does offer some delicious flavors
Note sure what your point is on the 996 turbo will never be as much as the 997 turbo but it should catch up for sure.
Why? Because IMO the turbo was never a unloved car. Why does this matter? Because unloved cars get driven to DEATH, repaired poorly if at all. It becomes a supply issue at this point.
996 base model and the E36 M3 are on the exact same trajectory.
Base model 996 > 997 Base
Turbo 996 < Turbo 997
Why? Because IMO the turbo was never a unloved car. Why does this matter? Because unloved cars get driven to DEATH, repaired poorly if at all. It becomes a supply issue at this point.
996 base model and the E36 M3 are on the exact same trajectory.
Base model 996 > 997 Base
Turbo 996 < Turbo 997
Last edited by bdronsick; 01-21-2022 at 10:29 AM.
#4880
#4881
You mean 997.1 > 997.2 Turbo obviously
And yup, 997.2 Turbo is just a wet-sump street motor; not even comparable, on any level, to any Mezger
And yup, 997.2 Turbo is just a wet-sump street motor; not even comparable, on any level, to any Mezger
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168glhs1986 (01-22-2022)
#4882
#4883
Talking with some people around work, their kids don't even care to get their drivers licenses, let alone care what kind of car they'd drive if they had one. Their kids are mostly young / middle teenagers, so I'm not sure if this resonates with the younger 20's crowd. As time goes on, enthusiasts are going to keep dwindling into smaller groups. Hell look at most new cars, you can't distinguish a new 2 series from a Nissan Maxima. Body lines of "super cars" are all starting to look similar (C8 Corvette) also.
Times are definitely always changing, so it will be interesting to see what happens over the next 10-20 years.
Times are definitely always changing, so it will be interesting to see what happens over the next 10-20 years.
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bdronsick (01-21-2022)
#4885
#4887
997.1 Turbocharged Mezgers are quite a bit more complex and stressed than 996 (MUCH more so than 993), and I believe they accordingly suffer from more problems
Not to even mention 997’s astronomically complicated “PASM” / “Sport Chrono” systems, etc., with highly sophisticated electronic and mechanical tentacles reaching into (and computer-controlling) almost every functioning intricacy of the 997 driving experience
Mezger GT1 racing block similarities aside, like stone age vs iron: purely from a technology perspective the 993/996 Turbos are relative dinosaurs compared to 997, and one man's dinosaur pile is another man's rare and simple gem
Trade offs
Not to even mention 997’s astronomically complicated “PASM” / “Sport Chrono” systems, etc., with highly sophisticated electronic and mechanical tentacles reaching into (and computer-controlling) almost every functioning intricacy of the 997 driving experience
Mezger GT1 racing block similarities aside, like stone age vs iron: purely from a technology perspective the 993/996 Turbos are relative dinosaurs compared to 997, and one man's dinosaur pile is another man's rare and simple gem
Trade offs
Last edited by bdronsick; 01-21-2022 at 01:19 PM.
#4888
...Mezger manual coupes are ALL freaking soaring right now: the “invisible hand” favors rarity, whether the buyers even recognize it yet, or not. The “market” discerned there are the same number of 993 & 996 Turbo manual coupes before we even did, and is ultimately correcting itself
Amazing
Amazing
There is then also an issue that some other forum posters have mentioned about "sold" cars on BaT not actually selling.
#4889
I appreciate your enthusiasm and as a 996TT owner I'm rooting to be able to drive my car for "free" as prices drift up. That being said, is your market data soley based on BaT? There seems to be a healthy disconnect from the auction sites and the other car sites. With regards to market pricing BaT has higher sales prices than Cars and Bids and PCarMarket and those seem to have much higher prices when compared to say Autotrader, CarGurus, AutoTempest etc.
There is then also an issue that some other forum posters have mentioned about "sold" cars on BaT not actually selling.
There is then also an issue that some other forum posters have mentioned about "sold" cars on BaT not actually selling.
#4890
BaT gets the best 911's, PCAR gets the one's BaT cuts, and C&B gets PCAR's rejects ("reject" means assigned "No Reserve")
Autotrader, Cars, Gurus, etc. and of course FleaBay take ALL the rest
Autotrader, Cars, Gurus, etc. and of course FleaBay take ALL the rest
Last edited by bdronsick; 01-21-2022 at 01:58 PM.