Marv

And a subsequent loss of headroom, besides the added weight.

bdronsick

Yup, IMO too 997 design was fussy and contrived: a “reactionary” marketing approach that projects “not a 996”, and not much else

991 and later are much larger, much more luxurious, grand touring cars: the “Panamera Coupe”

996 is the last authentic link in the unbroken Type 911 chain

IE “Race Sunday, drive Monday” died with Ferry Porsche, and his last 911: Type 996

barbancourt

Both 996 and 997 cars are great. While I love my 996, I wouldn't go so far as to call the 997 "fussy". It's a very good looking car with clean lines... similar to the 996. I think it has a very nice rear fender flare and a classy interior. Driving the cars back to back, you won't be thinking it's a night and day difference in driving experience, so I couldn't agree that the 996 is the last unbroken link in the 911 chain. Not too much wrong with either car, IMO.

GC996

I was never crazy about the 997 looks. Don't dislike them, but thought Porsche was trying to decide on what a "modern" 996 should look like and ever so slightly missed the mark inside and out with the 997. But time will tell us the true story.

I do believe they figured it out with the 991 in exterior and interior looks, but made the car a little to big. I get it, they were trying to create a new market of folks that wanted a softer, not-sport car sports car. Folks that didn't know how to drive stick, had very little interest in high performance driving and generally just wanted to keep it pretty, shiny and luxurious.

In contrast, the Cayman attracted the driving enthusiasts. I suspect this was the plan all along. Just go to a PCA DE event and you will see how the plan has worked in real time.

xhifer

Imo, No one cares about the 996 headlights except for 996 owners. Keep telling yourself how great it is lol. I do.

GC996

Here is an exercise for everyone to do and think about regarding prices and the demand for the 996.

Prices are about supply and demand, and we all know that the supply of 996s is slowly shrinking.

In addition, demand has been rising for a number of reasons that has been outlined on this thread and no reason for us to repeat.

But there is one component of demand that is about to be injected with steroids that we haven't really discussed, and that is the demand that will come from the release of the UIDS later this year. Because 996s and 987s are still very affordable, the release of the UIDS will drive an enhanced demand for both models for track use. If you aren't a track guy, you won't understand, but if you are, you can see it as clear as day.

Go to a PCA DE event and you will see many 911s, a couple of 964s and 993s on the track that have been track cars most of their life, lots of 981 caymans, and a couple of 996s, 997s, 987s, 991s and 992s.

The elimination of the risk of oil starvation and oil pressure instability thru the UIDS will completely alter the willingness of 996/997/987 owners to once again go back out on the track. Because prices are affordable, it will drive new demand for these cars. Not mint quality condition demand, but instead, demand for good mechanical condition that can be tracked.

The track community already knows that you can easily replace the IMS and AOS with better aftermarket solutions. But what has been missing has been a full solution for oil starvation/oil pressure instability beyond the 2qt Deep sump, which is the UIDS.

Everyone on this thread should keep an eye on the rollout of the UIDS and how it will fundamentally alter the demand for these cars.

motoo344

The data is out there, historical returns since the 1920s are 10% average. I think diversification is good but 99% of people buying cars aren't going to make anything. I hit a home run with my 996 and even if I doubled my money I've owned 30 cars and it still wouldn't cover the losses, taxes, or repairs over the years. I don't think I would ever buy a car as an 'investment' unless all other avenues were exhausted.

amargari

I agree with this. Also, just my opinion but the front of the 997.1 has too many openings and the center sticks out like a chin. The front of the 996 is much smoother.

barbancourt

Not sure about whether it will drive up the demand for the cars, but I agree with you wholeheartedly about the significance of the UIDS to the 996 community. A lot of people hesitant to track their cars will become open to the idea.

GC996

All it takes is a few more buyers. Doesn't mean it's going to happen overnight. It will take all year for the DE world to understand the significance of the UIDS. But it will have an effect on demand. Street guys won't understand nor care.

Putt-Putt

OK, I figured out you're not talking about birth control, what is UIDS?

Type65

Believe those are IUDs.... He's talking about the "Ultimate Integrated Dry Sump." Here is a link to the thread on it. It's pretty interesting and seems like it'll be a great solution.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ds-v2-2-a.html

GC996

Absolutely. Putt-Putts question is a viable one and adds fuel to the argument.

The vast majority of Porsche owners have never considered tracking their car and as such are not into the mechanical aspects of their car beyond just keeping it running, looking good, and driving around town and winding roads.

However, there is a significant subset of the Porsche community that does care about participating in track days, and is well aware of the issues of each Porsche model as it pertains to tracking the car.

As such, when you have a comprehensive solution to oil starvation and oil instability for a series of inexpensive cars (996/997/987) whose chassis were built for the track, you will have folks that will now have an interest in buying them to do so.

These folks aren't going to look for the mint condition pretty colored ones, they are going to look for the mechanically sound cars that they can add the UIDS, UAOS and a new IMSB, and go at it; creating a brand new market and therefore demand for these models that wasn't factored into the pricing equation up until this point.

​​​​​​To put it simply, every major catastrophic engine failure issue known to the 996/997/987, has been addressed with 3 after-market products making these models attractive buys for track guys and as result the overall fundamental demand for these models.

1. IMSB failure - LN Solution & Retro
2. AOS failure - UAOS
3. Oil Starvation and Oil Pressure Instability - UIDS

Most street guys pay attention to #1. Some street guys pay attention to #2. Very few street guys pay attention to #3.

Track guys pay attention to all three. And #3 above was not helping with the demand for these models. The rollout of the UIDS will change the demand side of the equation in a segment of the market that wasn't buying these models, with folks realizing that the three most important issues are now a non-event.

Long into the future, this thread will still be discussing headlights, unicorn colors, aero kits and mileage, but we will be looking for whether there is a LN IMSB, UAOS and UIDS on the car. This will provide a "positive" signal that the necessary parts were added for engine longevity and durability. Buyers will still need to perform a PPI and proper bore scope for bore scoring, but we all know that bore scoring can be mitigated to a great degree with more frequent oil changes, fresh fuel injectors/MAF/OXY sensors, good fuel and pragmatic start-up procedures; coupled with addressing the three (items) listed above which can create problems inside the engine and debris that can facilitate bore scoring.

The game is changing before our eyes, and I like what I see.

Randyg308

Accusump.

GC996

Randy,

I hear you. Deep sump and acusump were the only solution up until the UIDS. We have come a long way from the dark ages of the past 20 years for the M96. Wait till the LN Oil Cooling system is ready. We will be doing cartwheels at the track.