Prices Keep Drifting Up
09-01-2021, 01:32 AM
#2146
Rennlist Member
Friedman always seems to have nice Aerokits. Don't know Anyone that's bought from him/them
09-01-2021, 01:34 AM
#2147
Three Wheelin'
Awesome 997
09-01-2021, 05:04 AM
#2148
Rennlist Member
I'm surprised this ME is still up
https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/d/suncook-porsche-911/7370178371.html
https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/d/suncook-porsche-911/7370178371.html
Last edited by GarrettSR5; 09-01-2021 at 05:08 AM.
09-01-2021, 09:52 AM
#2150
Three Wheelin'
09-01-2021, 10:05 AM
#2152
Rennlist Member
@Billup gave the correct short answer. Hartech Engineering provides the most thorough long answer I've ever read; see Chapter-12:
https://www.hartech.org/images/downl...0(interim).pdf
Prevalence of 996/997 wet-sump motor bore scoring: 3.4 < 997.2 < 3.6 996 < 3.6 997.1 < 3.8 997.1; with 3.4 being virtually zero and 3.8 997.1 being 12%+ and soaring..
https://www.hartech.org/images/downl...0(interim).pdf
Prevalence of 996/997 wet-sump motor bore scoring: 3.4 < 997.2 < 3.6 996 < 3.6 997.1 < 3.8 997.1; with 3.4 being virtually zero and 3.8 997.1 being 12%+ and soaring..
Last edited by bdronsick; 09-01-2021 at 10:09 AM.
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peterp (09-01-2021)
09-01-2021, 10:08 AM
#2153
Three Wheelin'
09-01-2021, 10:09 AM
#2154
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
997.2 vs 997.1 aren't really comparable. 997.1 is closer to being a 996.3. 9a1 DFI engine began in 09.
09-01-2021, 10:13 AM
#2155
Rennlist Member
@Billup gave the correct short answer. Hartech Engineering provides the most thorough long answer I've ever read; see Chapter-12:
https://www.hartech.org/images/downl...0(interim).pdf
Prevalence of 996/997 wet-sump motor bore scoring: 3.4 < 997.2 < 3.6 996 < 3.6 997.1 < 3.8 997.1; with 3.4 being virtually zero and 3.8 997.1 being 12%+ and soaring..
https://www.hartech.org/images/downl...0(interim).pdf
Prevalence of 996/997 wet-sump motor bore scoring: 3.4 < 997.2 < 3.6 996 < 3.6 997.1 < 3.8 997.1; with 3.4 being virtually zero and 3.8 997.1 being 12%+ and soaring..
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Emefef (09-01-2021)
09-01-2021, 10:17 AM
#2157
Three Wheelin'
Built 3.4
@Billup gave the correct short answer. Hartech Engineering provides the most thorough long answer I've ever read; see Chapter-12:
https://www.hartech.org/images/downl...0(interim).pdf
Prevalence of 996/997 wet-sump motor bore scoring: 3.4 < 997.2 < 3.6 996 < 3.6 997.1 < 3.8 997.1; with 3.4 being virtually zero and 3.8 997.1 being 12%+ and soaring..
https://www.hartech.org/images/downl...0(interim).pdf
Prevalence of 996/997 wet-sump motor bore scoring: 3.4 < 997.2 < 3.6 996 < 3.6 997.1 < 3.8 997.1; with 3.4 being virtually zero and 3.8 997.1 being 12%+ and soaring..
ran across a jonh Anselmo Motorsports built 3.4 je pistons, balance, ported and polish heads, valve job. 330 to 335 hp. I may buy that car just for the engine.
If I get this, then to my mechanic. De jeeper transplant. Will put my engine on this and then we will have a car to track just for 🤩 fun, and I’ll have a little sleeper early 996.
09-01-2021, 10:26 AM
#2159
Rennlist Member
I would want to know primarily what was done to the cylinder sleeves and oiling to preserve the block with that 335HP.
The 3.4L M96/97 block was already at the uppermost design limit with 300HP, which is precisely why the more powerful versions fail. You have to remember the M96/97 block was originally designed for the 2.5L/201HP Boxster and had already been altered substantially by 3.4/296HP. Compounding this predicament is the fact the M96/97 Carrera (former Boxster) wet-sumped block was NEVER designed for racing (like dry-sumped Mezger had been).
IE boring out 3.4 to 3.6 to 3.8 in the wet-sump block is the difference between standing on the cliff's edge, dancing along it, and then jumping off.
If you're not willing to make the necessary (read expensive) modifications to the wet-sumped M96/97 block, then the only safe way to achieve over 300HP in a water cooled non-DFI 911 is with the Mezger motor; which can (apparently) structurally withstand up to 1,000HP+.
REMEMBER: the DRY-SUMP Mezger M96.7x with the 964 block was derived directly from a Porsche Motorsports endurance racing motor. CONVERSELY the WET-SUMP M96/97.0x was designed solely for mass-produced road use (nothing wrong with Porsche selling "cars" after all).
HORSES for COURSES. There is nothing patently deficient with the 3.4L 996 wet-sump motor as originally designed. Even the original dual-row IMSB has proven relatively durable over the past two decades. The problems crept in when this 996 motor was incrementally "upgraded" beyond it's original design limits. Or when it was subjected to racing stresses for which it absolutely was not designed.
The 996/997 Carrera equates with the wet-sump 912. And the 996/997 Turbo/GT is the dry-sump 911.
RACE Sunday OR DRIVE Monday. Pick your poison
PORSCHE DID NOTHING "NEW" WITH 996: ON THE CONTRARY they simply reverted back to the ORIGINAL dual-91x series marketing paradigm of the 911/912. One dry-sump 91x series for the track (the 911), and one wet-sump 91x series for the road (the 912). The "unification" of these two series that took place with the 911SC in 1978 was a total financial disaster for Porsche, and they only recovered by finally returning to the original 91x marketing paradigm of the two parallel models: one for racing and one for the street, in 1999.
This return to Ferdinand's original dual-91x series marketing paradigm remains highly profitable for Porsche to this day. The dry-sump 992's (GT's) are a tremendous success in the showroom and on track. And likewise the wet-sump 992's (Carreras & Turbos) are a tremendous success in the showroom and on the road.
Ferry's "Race Sunday, Drive Monday" was wrong. It took him 25-years to finally admit that.
Bottom line: The 300HP 996 is just a 912. Light, nimble, economical. Enjoy it for what it is. If you want a track-rat buy a Mezger.
The 3.4L M96/97 block was already at the uppermost design limit with 300HP, which is precisely why the more powerful versions fail. You have to remember the M96/97 block was originally designed for the 2.5L/201HP Boxster and had already been altered substantially by 3.4/296HP. Compounding this predicament is the fact the M96/97 Carrera (former Boxster) wet-sumped block was NEVER designed for racing (like dry-sumped Mezger had been).
IE boring out 3.4 to 3.6 to 3.8 in the wet-sump block is the difference between standing on the cliff's edge, dancing along it, and then jumping off.
If you're not willing to make the necessary (read expensive) modifications to the wet-sumped M96/97 block, then the only safe way to achieve over 300HP in a water cooled non-DFI 911 is with the Mezger motor; which can (apparently) structurally withstand up to 1,000HP+.
REMEMBER: the DRY-SUMP Mezger M96.7x with the 964 block was derived directly from a Porsche Motorsports endurance racing motor. CONVERSELY the WET-SUMP M96/97.0x was designed solely for mass-produced road use (nothing wrong with Porsche selling "cars" after all).
HORSES for COURSES. There is nothing patently deficient with the 3.4L 996 wet-sump motor as originally designed. Even the original dual-row IMSB has proven relatively durable over the past two decades. The problems crept in when this 996 motor was incrementally "upgraded" beyond it's original design limits. Or when it was subjected to racing stresses for which it absolutely was not designed.
The 996/997 Carrera equates with the wet-sump 912. And the 996/997 Turbo/GT is the dry-sump 911.
RACE Sunday OR DRIVE Monday. Pick your poison
PORSCHE DID NOTHING "NEW" WITH 996: ON THE CONTRARY they simply reverted back to the ORIGINAL dual-91x series marketing paradigm of the 911/912. One dry-sump 91x series for the track (the 911), and one wet-sump 91x series for the road (the 912). The "unification" of these two series that took place with the 911SC in 1978 was a total financial disaster for Porsche, and they only recovered by finally returning to the original 91x marketing paradigm of the two parallel models: one for racing and one for the street, in 1999.
This return to Ferdinand's original dual-91x series marketing paradigm remains highly profitable for Porsche to this day. The dry-sump 992's (GT's) are a tremendous success in the showroom and on track. And likewise the wet-sump 992's (Carreras & Turbos) are a tremendous success in the showroom and on the road.
Ferry's "Race Sunday, Drive Monday" was wrong. It took him 25-years to finally admit that.
Bottom line: The 300HP 996 is just a 912. Light, nimble, economical. Enjoy it for what it is. If you want a track-rat buy a Mezger.
Last edited by bdronsick; 09-01-2021 at 12:15 PM.
09-01-2021, 10:56 AM
#2160
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