sharkster

I'd have to say that's probably not a realistic way of keeping _any_ car together. Just because you can have "peak" HP at certain levels with certain types of gas it won't mean I'll run at 800-900hp all the time. Far from it, I just switch between programs... For the road course I'd likely use my lowest HP setting (around 650 or so) and leave it be. For drag racing and/or oher sillyness, I'd use a higher boost program and gas grade and drive like that in shorter bursts... I doubt there are any Tuner cars that you could run for hours at a race track with their full-on 800 RWHP settings and still expect to survive

And I am from London although now I'm living in the US so I do know and appreciate the different cultures. In a lot of areas in the US it's all about going in a straight line (and I'm the first to admit I love that stuff) but it really is becoming all about the "turns" these days too. I just don't remember people in the UK giving two hoots about 1/4mile times. Everyone is however universally concerned with 0-60 times for some reason...

pole position

Alex
The point I was trying to make is that those hp numbers are good only for short bursts but if you believe some vendors and owners of those cars they are completly reliable and bullet proof that's why I suggested the above "test.

Stummel

Regarding the Rs-Tuning Turbo on mobile.de the seller is a friend of the owner and he has no receipts/bills for the mods but a dyno sheet
Car is 3rd owner and has 20k kms since the mod and "about" 60k kms alltogether. I do not like the way they advertised the car with wrong facts. (2nd owner, 20k kms etc.)
That does not work for me

TB993tt

Stummel
Sorry to hear you are getting bad vibes about the car
But do not worry, you can get a kit to consisting of: Air filter, blow off valves, mild exhaust mods, K24s, Stage 4 remap
http://www.imagineauto.com/index2.htm - This will give you 600hp, only 53hp short of the RS GT2 EVO Secan engined car
All for the princely sum of around 8000 Euro + fitting.
Here's the deal, I will chip in half the parts cost, 4000 Euro and after you fit the kit, take it to Manthey's Maha dyno and if it gives anymore than 550hp DIN then keep my money. If less then Imagine and or their partners can refund the lot and write a nice apology on all the forums - Is this money where one's mouth is ?

Jean

I think this is the ultimate proof of someone being sure about what he says, and I applaud it. Will any of the dealers accept the offer? I can supervise myself as an independent the dyno runs and film them on video My car is there anyway!

Stummel

TB,
I am in.
Perhaps lies the secret of the 600hp in the way you install the kit (***magic***).
Hope they do not raise boost to 1.5 bar - then I will see 600hp for a fraction of a second and that's it.

PorschePhD

Jean,
You know, few are fortunate to have customers like you! I wish all were that way. Too many times over the past years we have had people call from over the pond and drill me. I have actually been called a liar by one foreign speaking gentleman. From that experience I have drawn my conclusion. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule. It just has happened more than once. This has only been in the 996TT market. I am not even sure they still even know the 930 market exist.

Pole,
You drag your **** to KC and I will rent Heartland park for you. It would be far cheaper than to send it overseas, not to mention it is my daily driver so I wouldn't be without it but a short while. You can run as much as you would like. As I said again, I would back the car down for a serious track event. On the track that kind of HP is not usable. I know, BTDT. It is about balance. If you question whether or not the engine would stay together I would take that bet. IN fact I would put my car up for the pot. I built the thing so I know what it can handle. Unlike so many based tuners I send my engine no where. Just wheel it over to my engine room.

PorschePhD

Better yet, you come here! We will do it here on my dyno. Why you ask, well because honestly your sarcasm and pot shots would leave me with concern that the testing would result in less than desirable results. The other truth of the matter is our description gives little detail for a reason. If you think anyone can give a stock TT 600HP and not do the internals you are sadly mislead. At any rate continue on your crusade. These internet debates are certainly amusing. Maybe you should ask Jean or Kevin or any of the other people on this board if I am misleading? You discredit dyno sheets yet you just challenge a kit to be dynoed. Whose car is faster.. honestly who cares? There is always a better kit, a faster car. To imply I would mislead anyone questions my integrity. That I take very seriously and personally. I offer it again, fly to the shop and we will provide whatever you would like. I appreciate support for the home team as much as anyone, but man…this bloviating never stops.

Jean

OK guys, I say we drop it here .. Stephen is one of the most decent builders we have on this forum, not to say "the" most to be fair to others that are very honest sponsors.

TB is a fierce defensor of the truth, and the truth has sometimes more than one face or angle. I for one appreciate his great insight and support him with his philosophy of numbers, but it is a choice.

In a market where numbers have become the sales pitch, decent tuners have to protect themselves, competitive pressure would leave them out of the loop. While I am sure that Stephen knows whether his packages offer a "reliable" 600 hp or not, he must advertise they do if he has seen them do it, for longer or shorter periods, and whether they break or not, is another debate, of which he is the fiercest advocate. He refused to do my car when I did not want internals initially.

European and German marketing tactics for tuners are very different, hype is very different and philosophy of tuning is very different.. More and more European tuners are realizing that the US model is the one that works, if they want to survive..

Reputations are built around longevity, reliability and on the tracks, to each builder his choice.

To finalize, without people like Stephen and TB and others who are so passionate about these cars, this forum would be like many others, meaningless... at least decency prevails here.

Let us go back to our childish hobby and enjoy the number talk and arguments.
Cheers guys.

BuddyG

Stephen, if TB really wants to put his money where his mouth is, why doesn't he fly his RS tuning car over and put it on your dyno, then you put your car on the same dyno and let's see the results. Then you can take both cars to the track (which is all that really matters) and see who prevails.

I can appreciate some scepticism but TB you have no clue about what people like Stephen are really doing over here in the States.

"Let's get ready to rumble!"

This is all said in a friendly competition kind of way, hope no one thinks I am mad.

sharkster

AH ok so we're saying the same thing then

sharkster

There's absolutely nothing wrong in measuring ***** sizes!

Bill S.

So far, here's the confirmed 60 to 130 MPH times from submitted speedo videos (digitally measured to the nearest frame) and car magazine tests. There's other times posted here, but we have not been able to verify them:

1. 930 (dknebes): 5.2 seconds (requires confirmation that speedo is accurate)
2. Enzo: 7.0 seconds (magazine test)
3. CGT: 7.3 seconds (magazine test)
4. Ruf Turbo R (Bill S): 7.4 seconds (3-4 shift), 8.7 seconds (2-3, 3-4 and 4-5 shift)
5. RS Tuning 993 TT (TB993TT): 7.7 seconds (3-4 and 4-5 shift), 8.6 seconds (2-3, 3-4 and 4-5 shift)
6. F430: 9.5 seconds (magazine test, Euro version)
7. F50: 9.6 seconds (magazine test)
8. Ferrari CS (Bill S): 11 seconds

I am confident that the 993 and 996 speedo videos are providing fairly accurate times, assuming stock tires and gearing. Times submitted using accelerometers are still questionable because of calibration errors.

Speedo videos with audio are the best because we can see when and where you shifted. We can also tell how fast you shifted. If you have non-stock tires or gearing, let us know and we can correct for that.

Sameer

Very very impressive

BuddyG

[QUOTE=Bill S.]So far, here's the confirmed 60 to 130 MPH times from submitted speedo videos (digitally measured to the nearest frame) and car magazine tests. There's other times posted here, but we have not been able to verify them:

1. 930 (dknebes): 5.2 seconds (requires confirmation that speedo is accurate)
2. Enzo: 7.0 seconds (magazine test)
3. CGT: 7.3 seconds (magazine test)
4. Ruf Turbo R (Bill S): 7.4 seconds (3-4 shift), 8.7 seconds (2-3, 3-4 and 4-5 shift)
5. RS Tuning 993 TT (TB993TT): 7.7 seconds (3-4 and 4-5 shift), 8.6 seconds (2-3, 3-4 and 4-5 shift)
6. F430: 9.5 seconds (magazine test, Euro version)
7. F50: 9.6 seconds (magazine test)
8. Ferrari CS (Bill S): 11 seconds

Thanks Bill this is the kind of list I was looking for! dknebes car is WOW if that is accurate. What exactly is he running??