993 WB Values are UP!!!
01-18-2022, 09:49 PM
#2026
Bingo -- that's the key. Also, every time I reset it was pressed gingerly; what one of the many oddities that we owners put up with, and get enamored from the 993s' many imperfections.
01-19-2022, 01:23 AM
#2028
Are you the original owner of a 993 who can account for every mile and engine hour since the vehicle was new? If so, what is the odometer history for YOUR vehicle?
Are you an experienced, certified Porsche mechanic and/or shop owner who has personally serviced and/or inspected many 993s over several years? If so, what is your odometer observation for OTHER vehicles that you serviced and/or inspected?
01-19-2022, 08:05 AM
#2029
Rennlist Member
I'm still confused about the outrage. It's a common problem. Either be transparent about it or the elephant in the room will end up crushing you.
And yes: ALL 993s that are actually driven WILL EVENTUALLY HAVE VALVE GUIDE FAILURES. You're welcome.
Last edited by notfastenough; 01-19-2022 at 08:07 AM.
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01-19-2022, 10:20 AM
#2030
Rennlist Member
01-19-2022, 11:32 AM
#2031
Rennlist Member
Thank you for sharing your experience and observations! I conducted a brief internet query for “Porsche 993 odometer failure” and I could use a reality check from knowledgeable participants on this thread.
It appears the premature 993 odometer gear failures started to surface about 10 years ago. I get a sense the typical lifespan for original 993 odometer gears is about 20 years + or - 5 years (15-25 yr), but they can ALL be expected to fail in this time, due to age not miles. Porsche USA never issued a recall for factory authorized correction, and Porsche Classic offers neither odometer replacement parts nor a standardized correction protocol. Likewise, PCA has not been active toward a broad resolution. 993 owners are currently on our own to repair premature odometer failure without meaningful Porsche USA and/or PCA support.
993 odometer gear replacement can be done by [perfectionist] owners
but it’s a delicate job and experts advise to let a qualified shop and/or odometer repair specialist (North Hollywood, Odometer Gears, etc?) do it.
Am I close? Please feel free to offer [civil and respectful] corrections!
It appears the premature 993 odometer gear failures started to surface about 10 years ago. I get a sense the typical lifespan for original 993 odometer gears is about 20 years + or - 5 years (15-25 yr), but they can ALL be expected to fail in this time, due to age not miles. Porsche USA never issued a recall for factory authorized correction, and Porsche Classic offers neither odometer replacement parts nor a standardized correction protocol. Likewise, PCA has not been active toward a broad resolution. 993 owners are currently on our own to repair premature odometer failure without meaningful Porsche USA and/or PCA support.
993 odometer gear replacement can be done by [perfectionist] owners
but it’s a delicate job and experts advise to let a qualified shop and/or odometer repair specialist (North Hollywood, Odometer Gears, etc?) do it.Am I close? Please feel free to offer [civil and respectful] corrections!
i think you might be taking things a bit too seriously here. i have done the odo repair and to say that "experts advise to let a qualified shop and/or odometer repair specialist (North Hollywood, Odometer Gears, etc?) do it" is a stretch. most owners here - who do at least some of their own work - can do it. delicate, maybe. perfectionist, it would help. with some level of detail, it's not a huge endeavor. i've certainly done FAR more difficult repairs over the years. we know the gears fail, we all understand it could be in a particular car's history. beyond that, what are you to do - check mileage the best you can and move on. you're suggesting a Standardized Correction Protocol from Porsche Classic or some action from PCA? it's a plastic gear - if it breaks, order both from odo gears and fix it. old cars have old parts.
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L39E (01-19-2022)
01-19-2022, 12:10 PM
#2032
I used to own a C2 Corvette for a long time.
Some of these cars are worth quite a bit these day - odometer mileage was never an issue, unless the car was a survivor. If so, there were enough tell tale signs to determine if the mileage was likely true or not.
Does anyone true think all of the 30K mile or less Ferrari 308/328 represent legitimate miles?
Modern Ferrari case have been routinely had the electronic odometers rolled back for re-sale purposes - do a google search.
PPis and odometer checking are all potential tools to be used when buying a 993. The most valuable tools are knowledge, a trained eye, documentation, and using a through checklist of items typically indicate where and tear on a car. In addition, try to gauge the seller (dealer/nondealaer), where the car came from, length of ownership, and similar issues.
Some of these cars are worth quite a bit these day - odometer mileage was never an issue, unless the car was a survivor. If so, there were enough tell tale signs to determine if the mileage was likely true or not.
Does anyone true think all of the 30K mile or less Ferrari 308/328 represent legitimate miles?
Modern Ferrari case have been routinely had the electronic odometers rolled back for re-sale purposes - do a google search.
PPis and odometer checking are all potential tools to be used when buying a 993. The most valuable tools are knowledge, a trained eye, documentation, and using a through checklist of items typically indicate where and tear on a car. In addition, try to gauge the seller (dealer/nondealaer), where the car came from, length of ownership, and similar issues.
01-19-2022, 02:56 PM
#2033
Instructor
Buy yourself a mid-mileage WB car, not high mileage, not garage-queen low mileage, based on overall condition... and then just drive it. Problem solved.
It's a shame that the inane commentary around pulling speedos, that polluted those BaT auctions, have trickled its way into here.
It's a shame that the inane commentary around pulling speedos, that polluted those BaT auctions, have trickled its way into here.
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01-19-2022, 03:21 PM
#2034
Rennlist Member
Buy yourself a mid-mileage WB car, not high mileage, not garage-queen low mileage, based on overall condition... and then just drive it. Problem solved.
It's a shame that the inane commentary around pulling speedos, that polluted those BaT auctions, have trickled its way into here.
It's a shame that the inane commentary around pulling speedos, that polluted those BaT auctions, have trickled its way into here.
01-20-2022, 11:23 AM
#2035
braun coming out of the gate with intensity...
i think you might be taking things a bit too seriously here. i have done the odo repair and to say that "experts advise to let a qualified shop and/or odometer repair specialist (North Hollywood, Odometer Gears, etc?) do it" is a stretch. most owners here - who do at least some of their own work - can do it. delicate, maybe. perfectionist, it would help. with some level of detail, it's not a huge endeavor. i've certainly done FAR more difficult repairs over the years. we know the gears fail, we all understand it could be in a particular car's history. beyond that, what are you to do - check mileage the best you can and move on. you're suggesting a Standardized Correction Protocol from Porsche Classic or some action from PCA? it's a plastic gear - if it breaks, order both from odo gears and fix it. old cars have old parts.
i think you might be taking things a bit too seriously here. i have done the odo repair and to say that "experts advise to let a qualified shop and/or odometer repair specialist (North Hollywood, Odometer Gears, etc?) do it" is a stretch. most owners here - who do at least some of their own work - can do it. delicate, maybe. perfectionist, it would help. with some level of detail, it's not a huge endeavor. i've certainly done FAR more difficult repairs over the years. we know the gears fail, we all understand it could be in a particular car's history. beyond that, what are you to do - check mileage the best you can and move on. you're suggesting a Standardized Correction Protocol from Porsche Classic or some action from PCA? it's a plastic gear - if it breaks, order both from odo gears and fix it. old cars have old parts.
It’s another thing to rack up undisclosed mileage while the odometer is broken, then DIY the odometer repair and conceal the event from buyers.
Which of these two scenarios describes you?
The big runup in 993 prices will surely lure some who exploit the flaw of early odometer failure. I’ve learned that 993 buyers are wise to simply assume: 1) the odometer failed at some point; 2) the repair was undisclosed, especially DIY; 3) the repair is potentially faulty, especially DIY; and 4) the vehicle mileage is understated.
Along with competent PPI, with special attention to odometer and functional mileage, my due diligence would be: 1) request odometer repair documentation; 2) request DME engine hours report; 3) request physical inspection of odometer; and 4) carefully inspect the complete service history and records with special attention on reported mileage intervals.
Finally, can someone help us all to understand the crimped bezel issue? Is this a difficult thing to do correctly? Does a bad job affect the speedo/odometer function, or is a bad job just ugly? Can anyone post pictures of a correct odometer repair with properly crimped bezel along with pictures of a bad job, so we all know what to look for?
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01-20-2022, 08:00 PM
#2039
Rennlist Member
It’s one thing to DIY your odometer repair and then fully document the event at sale with date of repair, odometer mileage at repair, receipts for parts and/or outsourced work, pictures of speedometer before and after repair - removed and installed, inside and sealed outside, internal gears (old and new), and that crimped bezel thing that Frank Beck mentioned (see end of post).
Which of these two scenarios describes you?
The big runup in 993 prices will surely lure some who exploit the flaw of early odometer failure. I’ve learned that 993 buyers are wise to simply assume: 1) the odometer failed at some point; 2) the repair was undisclosed, especially DIY; 3) the repair is potentially faulty, especially DIY; and 4) the vehicle mileage is understated.
Along with competent PPI, with special attention to odometer and functional mileage, my due diligence would be: 1) request odometer repair documentation; 2) request DME engine hours report; 3) request physical inspection of odometer; and 4) carefully inspect the complete service history and records with special attention on reported mileage intervals.
Finally, can someone help us all to understand the crimped bezel issue? Is this a difficult thing to do correctly? Does a bad job affect the speedo/odometer function, or is a bad job just ugly? Can anyone post pictures of a correct odometer repair with properly crimped bezel along with pictures of a bad job, so we all know what to look for?
Which of these two scenarios describes you?
The big runup in 993 prices will surely lure some who exploit the flaw of early odometer failure. I’ve learned that 993 buyers are wise to simply assume: 1) the odometer failed at some point; 2) the repair was undisclosed, especially DIY; 3) the repair is potentially faulty, especially DIY; and 4) the vehicle mileage is understated.
Along with competent PPI, with special attention to odometer and functional mileage, my due diligence would be: 1) request odometer repair documentation; 2) request DME engine hours report; 3) request physical inspection of odometer; and 4) carefully inspect the complete service history and records with special attention on reported mileage intervals.
Finally, can someone help us all to understand the crimped bezel issue? Is this a difficult thing to do correctly? Does a bad job affect the speedo/odometer function, or is a bad job just ugly? Can anyone post pictures of a correct odometer repair with properly crimped bezel along with pictures of a bad job, so we all know what to look for?
date of repair, odo mileage at repair, receipts for parts, outsourced work, pictures - before and after and removed and installed, sealed outside (?), old and new gears, crimpled bezel... let's say you get all that. what have you actually proven? nothing! you've proven the gears failed and, at some point, they were repaired. you are way overthinking this. how would any of that info positively prove when a odo failed, when it was repaired, and how many miles were in between the failure and the repair?
you seem like you might be more suited to leasing brand new vehicles.
for someone with 6 posts on RL, don't bother trying to judge my character. you have no grounds to question any actions of mine and i will be perfectly content if you never buy one of my cars.
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01-21-2022, 12:11 PM
#2040
i'll make one last comment since others know as well as i do this is getting ridiculous.
date of repair, odo mileage at repair, receipts for parts, outsourced work, pictures - before and after and removed and installed, sealed outside (?), old and new gears, crimpled bezel... let's say you get all that. what have you actually proven? nothing! you've proven the gears failed and, at some point, they were repaired. you are way overthinking this. how would any of that info positively prove when a odo failed, when it was repaired, and how many miles were in between the failure and the repair?
you seem like you might be more suited to leasing brand new vehicles.
for someone with 6 posts on RL, don't bother trying to judge my character. you have no grounds to question any actions of mine and i will be perfectly content if you never buy one of my cars.
date of repair, odo mileage at repair, receipts for parts, outsourced work, pictures - before and after and removed and installed, sealed outside (?), old and new gears, crimpled bezel... let's say you get all that. what have you actually proven? nothing! you've proven the gears failed and, at some point, they were repaired. you are way overthinking this. how would any of that info positively prove when a odo failed, when it was repaired, and how many miles were in between the failure and the repair?
you seem like you might be more suited to leasing brand new vehicles.
for someone with 6 posts on RL, don't bother trying to judge my character. you have no grounds to question any actions of mine and i will be perfectly content if you never buy one of my cars.