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I have a technical question, that maybe could sound silly, but maybe not: do the rear side glasses play any structural role?
My plan is to change all the glasses, except the windshield, with the makrolon version to save weight.
For an eventual future further mod, I would also like to get an idea what would be the weight saving by using carbon/Kevlar doors with titanium protection bar together with makrolon 4mm and manual side windows.
Did someone already do this mod ?
Wow, nice contribute!
That 964 is going to be superlight a very racing!
The car I imagine to build isn't so much racing, I would like as a second step to use the original window frames (original I mean, coming straight from the submerged 993 doors) together with lightweight doors, with protection bar inside, and fitted with all the accessories that an RS CS would have.
But at first, for budget reason, I will install standard doors
Wow, nice contribute!
That 964 is going to be superlight a very racing!
The car I imagine to build isn't so much racing, I would like as a second step to use the original window frames (original I mean, coming straight from the submerged 993 doors) together with lightweight doors, with protection bar inside, and fitted with all the accessories that an RS CS would have.
But at first, for budget reason, I will install standard doors
What did the RS CS come with? I was never a fan of glass or CF doors on these. It takes away from the feel of the car IMO. Here is a 993 RSR 3.8 interior from one of the non campaigned cars. The only lightening I see is the light weight glass in the doors and no power windows. Otherwise they seemed identical to the street doors. It did have polycarbonate rear quarter windows. Did the factory ever install glass doors on these even for racing?
On my track car I gutted the entire door leaving the cross member support. When I weighed them against the available FG doors the savings was only about 6 pounds per door but mine used the factory window frames and I have polycarbonate windows I made that stay in the tracks and are raised and lowered by hand using the cut out. Here it is before the covering.
Again with the full covering and roll cage inset into the door for easier entry and exit. I have to put the car back on the scales but it weighs about 2700 pounds with gas using all factory steel parts but no ventilation system. Being a boosted car I wasn't as concerned with getting every ounce of weight out of it. The power to weight ratio will be more than adequate. A different approach but I just like steel parts. Also my wife drives this so she insisted it had to look pretty with full interior. I am sure I could save a lot more weight if I didn't add all the pretty stuff. LOL
What did the RS CS come with? I was never a fan of glass or CF doors on these. It takes away from the feel of the car IMO. Here is a 993 RSR 3.8 interior from one of the non campaigned cars. The only lightening I see is the light weight glass in the doors and no power windows. Otherwise they seemed identical to the street doors. It did have polycarbonate rear quarter windows. Did the factory ever install glass doors on these even for racing?
On my track car I gutted the entire door leaving the cross member support. When I weighed them against the available FG doors the savings was only about 6 pounds per door but mine used the factory window frames and I have polycarbonate windows I made that stay in the tracks and are raised and lowered by hand using the cut out. Here it is before the covering.
Again with the full covering and roll cage inset into the door for easier entry and exit. I have to put the car back on the scales but it weighs about 2700 pounds with gas using all factory steel parts but no ventilation system. Being a boosted car I wasn't as concerned with getting every ounce of weight out of it. The power to weight ratio will be more than adequate. A different approach but I just like steel parts. Also my wife drives this so she insisted it had to look pretty with full interior. I am sure I could save a lot more weight if I didn't add all the pretty stuff. LOL
From what I know, both the Cup and the RS 993 had the Aluminum doors in place of the otherwise standard steel doors.
It would be nice to install aluminum doors as well, but I fear them to be crazy expensive (or at least as expensive as Carbon Fiber doors with Titanium inserts that must be lighter than aluminum), so I mean, if I go for a modification, either the aluminum doors cost less, or i would go for the reinforced carbon fiber version.
I will consider this modification only after having weighed the car: if I will be close to 1050 kg, maybe with some other mods it would be possible to go below 1000kg. I must wait and see, but meanwhile I am having a look around what would be the potential weight saving and the costs.
That is an ambitious weight reduction plan. I know the RSR has an aluminum hood I will check the doors later today and report back if they are aluminum or not. The factory racer had a lot of strange stuff I expected they would have removed. The heater boxes were retained and full ventilation suitcase but the ventilation system was non functioning. If I follow the 200kg challenge he is only at 262 kg less then stock which puts the car about just under 1100kg. I guess we will see what the weight is after it is done. I tired the weigh as I remove approach and the end result vs pounds removed did not add up. Paint and other things add more pounds than I expected. The full clear film wrap on the car also added a significant amount. He has done a great job with the build and I wish 3D printing was on my radar when I did mine back 5-6 years ago. There are a lot of very expensive parts and effort put into it and I would rather put some of that money into the engine, trans, suspension etc than lightening. I do appreciate a light car but with all the other good stuff it is equally as enjoyable being a bit on the heavier side.
My 74 3.0RS used factory aluminum hood, fenders and door skins. It was a nice light car but honestly the aluminum was a nightmare to keep from denting. I once made the huge mistake of hip checking the door closed which resulted in some significant repairs.
Dansk makes replacement aluminum outer door panels if you want to go that route, I think (but am not certain) that the factory race cars with aluminum doors used al skins with steel inner structure. Anyone know for sure? edit: street 993RS used the regular steel doors.
Dansk makes replacement aluminum outer door panels if you want to go that route, I think (but am not certain) that the factory race cars with aluminum doors used al skins with steel inner structure. Anyone know for sure? edit: street 993RS used the regular steel doors.
The standard door weighs 15,5 kg, while a carbon fiber one, with titanium cross bar, prepared to accept same accessories, weighs 5,5kg... It's 10 kg for each side of weight reduction.
Talking about the vent box, I also noticed cup cars still had it installed, without using it and I am sure it weighs something between 20 and 25 kg (all the mud being removed)
I got the information that 993 Cup cars weight 1130kg, with empty fuel tank.
Considering the 25 kg of the Fan box, let's say 15/20 kg from door weight reduction and other 50 kg from rollbar/ lifting system/fire extinguisher, plus 10kg from lithium lithium battery that wasnt available, I think it is possible to achieve 100kg of weight reduction, which would mean 1030 kg.
To go further i think it would be necessary to go for titanium studs and bolts, titanium wheel carriers, and carbon fiber rear hood & spoiler (I must confess I didn't expect the rear M003 spoiler and wing could weigh so much).
From the cup car I must remove also 15 kg from the braking system, because of the pump, the bigger calipers and larger rotors, since I will stay with standard braking system, using larger & custom made floating rotors that should weigh less the the standard ones.
Such a layout will be more than enough, since the car Wil be basically used in open roads and some time attack during track days.
I am still looking for the right source for the front brake air ducts, I was looking for the original cup kit, but it seems very difficult to find one. Where could I find also the from red central and fixed hook?
I would like to go very rude without installing the painted scoops, but just go adding the black painted nets like was for the cup cars.
Another voice where saving weight could be asking for a carbon fiber naked custom made seat, probably this could save 5 kg more.
Titanium custom made wheel hub, same shape as the original ones (or maybe shaped like the 996 wheel hubs) should save at least 50% of wheel hub weight.
Maybe these could become voices for further development/improvement.
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 01-05-2021 at 03:26 PM.
Dansk makes replacement aluminum outer door panels if you want to go that route, I think (but am not certain) that the factory race cars with aluminum doors used al skins with steel inner structure. Anyone know for sure? edit: street 993RS used the regular steel doors.
Uhmmm... I am not sure the 15,7 kg of the steel one refer to the outer skin only like the 3,7 kg of the aluminum one do...
little morning question... I am not sure, since when I removed the lines I was more concentrated to avoid the mud in the eyes than paying attention to any other thing, but I think the 4 lines on the right are the fuel lines, while the 3 lines on the left should be the ones for the power assisted steering rack...and the shorter one in the middle, I don't know, but maybe is connection for the fuel line as well?
^^ i was looking for a picture when you posted and agree. I believe you are correct on the lines.
I don't believe the door skin weighs 15.8kg in steel. I have to see if I can find the paperwork, we just re-skinned a door on an older 911 and I don't recall it being that heavy. I re-skinned my roof with a full panel from the factory and this is larger than the door skin. I should have weighed it before installing but I know it wasn't quite 15kg
01-03-2021, 03:52 PM
