Fullyield

Am I the only one who sees the irony of a thread expending the time and money to develop a work around for a problem inherent to a $2100 OPTION that the buyer chose? Instead of a work around, maybe we should just reconsider whether we want to spend $2100 on this option to begin with? Just saying……….

But thank you to Anti Gravity for trying to develop a solution to the Porsche factory issue.

Guzzgreg

What irony? Because I don’t want to be held captive to eventually buying an overpriced Porsche proprietary battery somewhere down the line? OR that they don't have an adequate supply of hence making you wait? Antigravity is giving us choices and I for one am grateful if they can figure it out. Porsche doesn’t seem to care.

Tobeit

I guess the problem is that some options (RAS) require it in the package...

Richard_Wallace

Remember before you get a little snippy on your posts.

1.) RAS equipped cars come with the LiPo Battery = no choice
2.) Some markets default to the LiPo Battery as well, so some like Canada have no choice
3.) LiPos have been around a long time in many marquees (F, L, McL) - I do not think any of us wished there would be some of the short term issues some has had (I have not had any problem with both my 992s with RAS/LiPo) - and some may not have know of the issues that some have. Unless a part of this site recently.
4.) LiPo is significantly lighter than AGM, some may want that for track or just performance reason (that is why MCL and F and L come with a LiPo standard).
5.) regardless of issues, eventually with LiPo or AGM, - sometime you will need to replace it - nice to have options specifically with the cost of these things.

siberian

Good points Richard, I'd like to add also that

1) RAS was available on the 991s with an AGM so it does seem possible

2) Reliable and consistent current, weight savings and life expectancy are the 3 main components as to why they chose to go this route.

3) We can hope that over time the cost of these will decrease some, however, given the $2k+ cost, even if LiFePO4 batteries last twice as long, we're still a very long way from LiFePO4 being price competitive.

Again, like BMS a product was released without sufficient testing coupled with a total lack of empathy from PCNA results in a lot a p*ssed customers. Unless something has changed from the 991s concerning AGM and RAS compatibility, it would have been nice to have been given a choice; a slim LiFePO4 or a standard "obese" AGM. Yet, how many would have understood the ramifications (if any) in such a choice?

siberian

CodyBigdog

I have RAS on my 992S, and have had no issues after 2 years (knock on wood) with my LiPO4 battery. I do tend to keep it on a battery tender during the Winter months. The fact (from Porsche published data) that the projected lifetime of the LiPO4 battery is almost 2x that of the Porsche AGM batteries, is a nice thing given its hefty price tag. Nevertheless, it would be nice to have other battery options (e.g., Antigravity) when I do finally have to replace my Porsche LiPO4 battery…so very appreciative of Antigravity’s efforts to find a solution…

Fullyield

Could not agree with you more, Guzzgreg.

Fullyield

Only snippy at Porsche (not the consumer​​​​​​) for the reasons outlined by Guzzgreg and Siberian. The irony comment directed at Porsche knowingly selling a problematic product. I very much appreciate all of the RL threads on the many lithium battery issues before I ordered my 992 as they were quite helpful. Appreciative to AntiGravity as well as I previously mentioned. Agree with your comment regarding Canadian and Northern European who had no choice and all the early 992 buyers who were not informed of the issues. But the fact remains that we have now known about the Porsche LiPo issues for over a year now and RS in US remains an option. I read my first LiPo thread on here over a year ago…….and we are still reading them. Porsche’s LiPo program not ready for prime time. Hope it gets there eventually as other mfgrs (BMW) are not having these issues with their LiPo batteries.

BondJ

1. buy a Porsche without RAS
2. Purchase from another manufacturer
3. The fact that LiPos has worked fine for years without issue in other manufacturers vehicles is the perfect reason to question why it doesn’t with Porsche
4. Weight saving is irrelevant if the f**ker won’t start
5. As good as it may be, AntiGravity should not NEED to be an option on a new car Respectfully

Richard_Wallace

Just a quick side note, reminder LiPo has not been a problem for everyone (actually a minor few) - I have had both of mine collectively for 2 years for the 2020 C4S with RAS, and my 2022 Targa 4S for 1 year) and no problem what-so-ever.

With Both Ferrari and McLaren having an aftermarket option is good to have (which both do with AntiGravity or the like) - with Porsche BMS, it has been difficult to overcome. This may be a solution, as mentioned above. So, for me, the solution isn't due to a problem with my LiPo draining quickly - it is the ability to (when the time comes and the LiPo dies of natural causes) have an alternative that is just as good (if not better), but at 1/2 the price of Porsche OEM replacement LiPo.

Ps. We just did a similar thing with McLaren, had a way to bypass the BMS on the Mac, so you could replace with a non-maclaren battery (less expensive, and some of the Mac batteries have been on back order for months).

Guzzgreg

[With Both Ferrari and McLaren having an aftermarket option is good to have (which both do with AntiGravity or the like) - with Porsche BMS, it has been difficult to overcome. This may be a solution, as mentioned above. So, for me, the solution isn't due to a problem with my LiPo draining quickly - it is the ability to (when the time comes and the LiPo dies of natural causes) have an alternative that is just as good (if not better), but at 1/2 the price of Porsche OEM replacement LiPo.]

BINGO!!

westcoastj

That sucks. No problem with mine so far and I keep it on tender. But it is my summer/weekend car so I do have a daily driver car

westcoastj

Anyone know the reason why Canada has the LiPo battery as mandatory? Not that I drive my 911 in the winter, but I've even had AGM batteries die in the winter.

Fullyield

“Minor few” Porsche LiPo battery problems you say? Search it on RL. I was reading about the issues repeatedly last summer which was sole reason why I decided against RAS when I ordered. Thank you RL. Sorry Richard, but I am throwing BS on that statement. Ask Michigan 992. This thread alone, just concerning a work around for the Porsche LiPo battery problem, is 12 pages???? Shame on Porsche and all the apologists. I doubt any consumer would agree to a LiPo battery if Porsche honestly informed them beforehand that replacement LiPo batteries are only available through Porsche ……which must be shipped from Germany …….at a cost of $2500 ……at a 2-3 month delay. Who in their right mind would want a LiPo battery if Porsche fully disclosed those true facts to buyers before purchase? There is a reason Porsche is one of the richest companies in the world. Tip of the hat to Anti Gravity for working on a low cost solution for consumers.

Richard_Wallace

I am not saying not a problem, but you do understand, current stats of all 911s there are nearly 35% that have RAS (and / or Lipo - market specific). That would include all markets with LiPo as standard, all 911's that optioned RAS in non-Lipo markets as well as GT cars with RAS as Standard. I know you think because there are a lot of people that posted on this forum with issues (even then only a few dozen to my count). That is just a fraction of what has been delivered with LiPo. Talking to several service advisors, they are not seeing this as an epidemic (2 porsche dealers in my network have only had 6 in total have an issue) and that is across 2 mid-sized dealers. So that is why I do not think it is a majority having issues.

Now I still believe it to be a problem, but lets not get carried away and saying that all with RAS/LiPo are having the issue, as only a small percentage are. Still a problem, yes.,

PS. I ordered RAS on both my 992s as I have it in my 991.2 Touring, and love it. Would order it again (which I will on my next 992.2 or whatever I get after my 992 Targa (with RAS and Lipo) - I think it is awesome. I do hope that porsche fixes whatever issue they are having (not with the Lipo - that is not the problem) it is the BMS coding on some that is the issue.

The good news is that you do not have to order RAS - which if you are not in a market with LiPo as standard - great. But for me, I wanted my targa with PDCC and RAS, which is why I ordered it - and thus far no issues - like the majority.