Lithium ion battery
05-02-2022, 01:00 PM
#16
Racer
The facts as we know them are these...
-At this point in time, and note I say "at this point in time", there is not a work around for Installing an aftermarket Lithium Battery, or AGM Battery to replace the latest Porsche Lithium Battery in the 992s. The reason for this is becuase the current Porsche Lithium Battery has a proprietary plug located on Lithium Battery itself that sends it's data (voltage, current, temperature and other data) via Linbuss from within the battery itself to the Car'a system. BUT.....That does not mean there is not going to be a work around for this because an Intelligent Battey Sensor (IBS) system, that is currently all the Porsches with AGMs, does the exact same thing but in a module that is attached directly to the Car's (Neg or Pos) Battery Terminal Clamp. So there are two seperate ways to get the data to the main computer in the Cars so the Car system can make determination on when to charge the battery and such.
The point here being that there is high probablity for a work around to this system, as they have done in the aftermarket for the BMW systems. The reason I say this is because first, BMW people have done it, additionally as noted on the Cayenne forum some of the new Cayennes are coming with AGM instead of Lithium, and they have to use the IBS type system rather than the plug in system if they do that. So if a car can use an AGM it can use an Antigravity Lithium Battery also. No method for sending the Battery data is really better than the other, its just a way for Porsche to require a proprietary battery on the Cars using their newest Lithium Batteries which are severly overpriced (personal opinion on the pricing part). So with that being said there may be a work around and we can assume it might be a wiring harness change and use an IBS sensor when swapping it out.
Another interesting thing would be to know if the plug-in tip that fitss into the newer Porsche Lithium Battery is the same tip that fits into the IBS plug that is located on the terminal on the other car with the AGMs.... so in fact it might be a harness swap since some of the 992s had AGMs.
On another front the reason they use the Lithium for Rear Wheel Steering is becuase lithium is less prone to voltage sag when higher currents are drawn from it... meaning it more capable of higher discharges than Lead/Acid. But being honest the older GT3s with rear wheel steering did just fine with the Lead/Acid Batteries. Yes the Lithium is much better in performance, but my point being they don't have to have it be Lithium, so there should be an option to have AGM in the Cars. Again personal opinion says they went with Lithium YES for better performance , but made it the silly proprietary Plug-in to be able to control the pricing and require you only use a Porsche Battery, and that is where I call the boloney. A battery should not be a special order part, especially if they can't even stock them.
-At this point in time, and note I say "at this point in time", there is not a work around for Installing an aftermarket Lithium Battery, or AGM Battery to replace the latest Porsche Lithium Battery in the 992s. The reason for this is becuase the current Porsche Lithium Battery has a proprietary plug located on Lithium Battery itself that sends it's data (voltage, current, temperature and other data) via Linbuss from within the battery itself to the Car'a system. BUT.....That does not mean there is not going to be a work around for this because an Intelligent Battey Sensor (IBS) system, that is currently all the Porsches with AGMs, does the exact same thing but in a module that is attached directly to the Car's (Neg or Pos) Battery Terminal Clamp. So there are two seperate ways to get the data to the main computer in the Cars so the Car system can make determination on when to charge the battery and such.
The point here being that there is high probablity for a work around to this system, as they have done in the aftermarket for the BMW systems. The reason I say this is because first, BMW people have done it, additionally as noted on the Cayenne forum some of the new Cayennes are coming with AGM instead of Lithium, and they have to use the IBS type system rather than the plug in system if they do that. So if a car can use an AGM it can use an Antigravity Lithium Battery also. No method for sending the Battery data is really better than the other, its just a way for Porsche to require a proprietary battery on the Cars using their newest Lithium Batteries which are severly overpriced (personal opinion on the pricing part). So with that being said there may be a work around and we can assume it might be a wiring harness change and use an IBS sensor when swapping it out.
Another interesting thing would be to know if the plug-in tip that fitss into the newer Porsche Lithium Battery is the same tip that fits into the IBS plug that is located on the terminal on the other car with the AGMs.... so in fact it might be a harness swap since some of the 992s had AGMs.
On another front the reason they use the Lithium for Rear Wheel Steering is becuase lithium is less prone to voltage sag when higher currents are drawn from it... meaning it more capable of higher discharges than Lead/Acid. But being honest the older GT3s with rear wheel steering did just fine with the Lead/Acid Batteries. Yes the Lithium is much better in performance, but my point being they don't have to have it be Lithium, so there should be an option to have AGM in the Cars. Again personal opinion says they went with Lithium YES for better performance , but made it the silly proprietary Plug-in to be able to control the pricing and require you only use a Porsche Battery, and that is where I call the boloney. A battery should not be a special order part, especially if they can't even stock them.
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Antigravity (05-02-2022)
05-02-2022, 01:20 PM
#17
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My car has been down for 4 weeks now with Porsche and the dealer trying to fix it. They decided it needed a new Li battery, but Porsche doesn’t know when they might be able to supply one. At this point I would not recommend Purchasing a Porsche product for anything more than occasional use with a primary vehicle to use when it is down. Love the car, but Porsche service is little better than 1980’s when PCNA was called with a complaint they would just hang up.
I was going to suggest you ask he Dealer if there is a work around, or if they can go into PIWIS and set it for AGM so you can drive it around at least. I assume the Rear Wheel Steering would not want to work and show a flag but it should not harm the car in any way. Good luck on this.
05-02-2022, 02:12 PM
#18
These batteries are coded into the power train control modules and to the VIN. I suspect the latter is to stop people from stealing them or recycling them out of totaled cars. The upside is that they made it an emissions part under EPA rules so I would not agree to pay for one until the emissions warranty has expired on the vehicle. Now if I could only get one……
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kgb_kgb (05-04-2022)
05-02-2022, 03:41 PM
#19
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These batteries are coded into the power train control modules and to the VIN. I suspect the latter is to stop people from stealing them or recycling them out of totaled cars. The upside is that they made it an emissions part under EPA rules so I would not agree to pay for one until the emissions warranty has expired on the vehicle. Now if I could only get one……
If they have actually tied the coding and workability of the battery to the VIN, (sound a little far out there, or perhaps its the standard coding they are talking about?) and claim it is an emissions part, and they are making it proprietary I would think they are opening themselves up to a class action lawsuit. I am not an attorney, and just speculating, but it is I think its reasonalble to say this not legal becasue first they are unable to supply the parts in a timely manner, and secondly there could be an argument that the Battery is NOT an emmisions part, being 99.9999% of them have worked fine within other systems at currently meeting the Euro 5 or 6 standards, and third that Porsche is making a commodity part like a battery into a proprietary part that can only be supplied by Porsche alone. Seems alot of different avenues to pursue legally.
Anyway, I don't want inflame anything here, I don't have any answers or much knowledge, but I would suggest if any of you are having problems, do not accept a denied warranty of your Porsche Lithium Battery. You want to argue yhsy you demand Porsche replaces the Lithium Battery on their dime if it fails. Paying $2k for a battery every few years will be utterly ridiculous. Lithium is designed to last 7-10 years in most cases, depending on use. Even the company who makes Porsches Lithium Batteries (A123 Systems) was claiming this... yet some have said it failed much sooner. Of course you should maintain it properly, but unless it sitting months without being charged it should be staying in good condition. Just my two cents.
05-02-2022, 03:56 PM
#20
I work in the industry. Any device that is controlled by the same electronic module as that which controls the engine or transmission or alters how the vehicle is operated by its inputs or lack thereof is an emissions device. I think Porsche got a bit too clever here binding their customers to their spare parts and didn't realize what it would mean in the US. I unfortunately have firsthand knowledge now of what the car does and stops doing when it decides the battery charge is low even if it is not. I know what it would mean for our EPA filings and defect reporting.
Since the Porsche factory technicians can't get this car back on the road, I don't think there is a current work around. I suspect the aftermarket tuners will offer up a solution eventually.
Since the Porsche factory technicians can't get this car back on the road, I don't think there is a current work around. I suspect the aftermarket tuners will offer up a solution eventually.
05-02-2022, 09:31 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
05-03-2022, 08:51 PM
#24
Intermediate
My 2020 911 Li battery is defective. Won't hold a charge. My Bend, OR Kendall dealer told me to call 800 Porsche. I did, no reply. I'm now in Tucson and Chapman Porsche diagnosed my battery and found it defective. As they were out of loaners they offered me, at their cost, a rental until a new battery arrived, or better yet, they installed their test battery which I can keep until my new battery arrives. They have no idea when a new battery will be priority air freighted to them. Great service from Chapman Porsche of Tucson.
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Fullyield (05-03-2022)
05-03-2022, 10:03 PM
#25
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For what's worth, there's a provision on the Cayenne PIWIS (same module where you enter the battery s/n) listing different types of batteries and the LIN status. With some fiddling it may be possible to use other brands and types, but only testing the hardware and look for codes to be certain.
05-03-2022, 10:37 PM
#26
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Another cry for 48v systems...(and IPv6...)
siberian
siberian
Last edited by siberian; 05-04-2022 at 11:48 AM.
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aggie57 (05-03-2022)
05-04-2022, 10:05 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by siberian
Another cry for 48v systems...(and IPv6...)
siebrian
siebrian
05-04-2022, 11:54 AM
#28
RL Community Team
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Yep and alas so did IPv6 20+ years ago...
siberian
siberian
05-08-2022, 06:17 AM
#29
Instructor
Thread Starter
Anyone knows who has has a ready battery and how long do we need to wait for a new battery if we need to indent !
I have been hearing horror stories up to 30-60 days !
is this true ?
I have been hearing horror stories up to 30-60 days !
is this true ?
05-08-2022, 12:26 PM
#30
No. Supply is not that good. Li batteries of this size are considered hazardous material and Porsche doesn't seem to want to pay the air freight bill to get them to North America quickly. With production stopped in Europe they should have plenty to ship.
Porsche is sending a tech and one of their batteries to get my car back on the road until a new battery can come in. They are estimating July for a car that has been down since early April. The dealer should be able to handle the new battery fitment once it arrives. The dealers can't code a used battery to a different vehicle. Kind of like the old anti-theft software we put in to stop people from stealing stereos. FYI Porsche made this offer hours after posting on this site.
Porsche is sending a tech and one of their batteries to get my car back on the road until a new battery can come in. They are estimating July for a car that has been down since early April. The dealer should be able to handle the new battery fitment once it arrives. The dealers can't code a used battery to a different vehicle. Kind of like the old anti-theft software we put in to stop people from stealing stereos. FYI Porsche made this offer hours after posting on this site.
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kgb_kgb (05-08-2022)