inthesticks

At this point, speculation or not we know two things for a fact. 1) the ship had a massive fire. 2) The ship was evacuated of all supervision for an extended period of time. Those factors alone should render all of the vehicles unsalvageable. The potential for liability to VW if just one of those cars is used is massive - and it would make zero sense for them not to declare a total loss.

Right now VW/Porsche should be assuming total loss, and determining next steps for the dealers and affected customers.

malba2366

While it sucks that some may have their cars delayed, everyone on this board who has a Porsche on order is much more fortunate than most. Let's be thankful that no one died in this incident, as more times than not maritime disasters lead to the loss of life. There were 1100 Porsches on that ship so out of that probably around 150-200 are 911s

aggie57

I very much doubt it unless someone ships them to some third country. They're outside the US so unlikely they'll ever see US soil.

ipse dixit

aggie57

My understanding is that the key point in time is the crew abandoning the vessel. Doesn't need to sink, but they can re-board it before someone attaches a tow line which avoids the whole salvage situation. Unless they request assistance in which case.....something for the maritime lawyers to comment on.

CodyBigdog

If they have a GT3 for sale at pennies on the dollars, I’’l sign a waiver assuming all risk, liability. Looking for a track car…😎

malba2366

I believe the plan is to tow the ship back to port, but the fire has to be under control before that happens. The reports say that the fire was in the cargo hold....If I had to wager a geuess it was an EV responsible for the fire (ship have ID.4 and Taycan on board) as these fires are very difficult to out put. A fire on a gasoline car would be out out quite easily with the ships fire suppression system.

CodyBigdog

Key point, “the crew”.

I can see the captain of the vessel telling his “crew” to abandon ship, that would be the most prudent (and best legal course of action) thing to do….but most Captains won’t abandon ship until there’s no other option. That’s why there’s some real truth to the old saying, a captain never abandons his ship. As long as the Captain remains onboard, as the de facto representative of the shipping line that own the ship, he’s the man in charge.

“In the United States, abandoning the ship is not explicitly illegal, but the captain could be charged with other crimes, such as manslaughter, which encompass common law precedent passed down through centuries. It is not illegal under international maritime law.”

Around here, I’ve never heard of, nor read about anyone abandoning a floating vessel, unless it’s going down, or on the verge of going down. Oh, and going down around here does not necessarily mean sitting on the bottom of the Chesapeake. Taking on water that the bilge pumps can’t keep up with, heavy listing, etc is enough to abandon the ship. Usually in times of horrific storms.

But hey, the Captain knows best (my dad was a 32 year career Naval Officer who logged 100’s of thousands of hours). The Captain is the one put in charge of assessing the situation.

Here’s an interesting case that played out in the Maryland Courts, and in the news for the better part of a year - A number of years ago we had a Cat 1 hurricane come up the Chesapeake. In it’s wake of destruction were a number of pleasure boats that were sunk while being moored at dock. But a few that had been dry docked on land, prior to the storm, were floated by a 6 foot tidal surge. One of these boats ended up partially sinking, after being smashed up against the rocks, about 20-30 feet from the Naval Academy sea wall. The boat was only partially submerged, and still represented a boating hazard in a very busy harbor. The boat remained half sunken until the courts decided who was at fault and responsible for the salvage costs (ie, the boat owner, the storage place, the Naval Academy, or the City of Annapolis??)

krabman

How these things go down is not well understood. I should also say up front that this isn't a call out, I don't think you had any animosity or ill intent and what follows is just to try and describe to you and others who might be interested what they're looking at in the case of a fire at sea. There is no way to keep this short so the cliff notes would be that it's just possible you might want to cut those men some slack. I should preface this by saying I'm not familiar with this type but I can share some generalities. I'm going to bounce around a bit because these things are all interrelated...

The single largest key to successfully extinguishing a fire on board a vessel is getting to it early/before it has spread. For that reason, while it seems counterintuitive, fire extinguishers are usually the best hope and what were often used to successfully suppress a fire. Get to it early; it's all you need. Of course an extinguisher can't put out a whole lot of fire and sometimes it isn't possible to enter a space and use one, so, you have tools. Usually the engine room(s)and some other critical spaces will have what's called a "fixed" system. In the old days it would be halon, but nowadays, it's typically carbon dioxide. Because of the inherent dangers involved in dumping your charge accidentally these types of systems are reserved for those types of critical spaces and the people working in those spaces are required to have specific training, you have to have warning horns/lights to alert crewmembers that the charge is going to be dumped, etc. These can't be dumped automatically because you have to verify that personal are clear of the space, close vents, turn off air circulation, etc. Many of these spaces also have foam deployment systems which can dump foam into the bilge, these are also deployed manually. In this case it isn't a safety issue but you have only so many bullets and you expend them carefully and to maximum effect. Then you've got sprinkler/mist/fog systems. These use seawater so for practical purposes you've got an unlimited supply of agent. Depending on the space these can be triggered automatically or can be manually set. You also have aerosols which are relatively expensive but non-toxic, aren't corrosive, and can be tailored to the expected fire. These can be fixed systems or deployable, the crews call the latter grenades or bombs. Last among the major systems that you'll normally have at your disposal is the hose team; men in bunker gear with a hose. There are other things but those are the highlights. What you must have is defined by international regs as well as a smorgasbord of national regs, many boats have more than the minimum.

To move back to the beginning before any of that happens you have to be made aware that you have a fire. In this respect you've got gas detectors, flash detectors, smoke detectors, video surveillance, etc. This also is defined by various regs but often enough though it's the crew that finds a fire with good old-fashioned eyeballs and they set the alarm.

How does it get out of hand? Unfortunately it's easy: Boats have many flammable materials and the cargo itself can be dangerously flammable. Boats are riddled with wire ways, pipes, conduits, ducting, and so on that seemingly come and go from everywhere to everywhere. These can conduct heat from one space to the next. It can be difficult to know you have a fire until it is already fully involved because spaces are often (relatively) sealed. Imagine a fire in a container in the middle of other containers; it will take a while to figure out you have a fire and your options to fight it are few. Or consider that the devices employed to detect a fire can be disabled by a fire melting the wire leading to it; yeah, it happens. Another significant factor in fires getting out of hand is the difficulty in fighting them despite the tools so lets run that out.

There are lots of ways it may go down but we'll just consider what will be going on in most cases because specifics would require too much typing and no one would be interested anyway. To start with, somehow fire was found, it doesn't matter how, just that you have a fire. The alarm is sounded, the wheelhouse notified, and the wheelhouse will then set a general alarm. This will precipitate a whole crew response, who each will perform the individual duties of their station bill. The first of those duties will be to report to a designated place to be informed of the emergency and the response to it. That place is often the wheelhouse where the Captain is in overall command of the emergency response. He will determine which of the fixed systems will be used and that's normally a short conversation, it's probably going to be any that are applicable because early intervention greatly enhances your chances of getting the fire under control. This will require some setup but the crew trains for this and it is a part of the drills which are regularly conducted, so it is quickly done. The fixed suppression systems are then deployed. The automatic suppression systems should have deployed but if they failed they will usually be triggered manually if possible.

All of this may or may not work. If it does work, great, you're going to set a watch for reflash and deploy the lack of strategy called hope. If it doesn't work, not so good. Now you're looking at sending in a hose team to ascertain the situation. This is a truly daunting proposition; think about it: It's frequently going to be dark; so dark that you cant see your hand in front of your face. That would be through the mask of your SCBA because you're going to be under air and wearing full bunker gear. You'll be crawling to the fire; the lower you get the cooler it is and you may also be able to get under smoke and have some vision down there. Speaking of smoke there are fumes in such a fire; all toxic. Some will be just an irritant with a short exposure, some can take years off your life, some can be fatal in the near term, depends on what's burning. This keeps you keenly aware of the seal on your mask, you don't want to hit your head on something while crawling in the dark and break the seal which will lead to inhaling God-knows-what. How far you get is an open question. In fire school they're going to tell you that you can get 30 minutes out of a bottle of air if you control your breathing. Will not happen. The gear is heavy, you're crawling while dragging a hose along with you, it's hot, you can't see anything, you're scared. The reality is that as little as a few minutes can see you to the halfway point on your air, this is where you have to turn around because your air needs to last until you're out. You may not have got far because a lot of things may slow you down. You might have to roll your SCBA off while keeping the mask on to get down a ladder well for example, it takes time. You have to test every door, sealed spaces can produce backdrafts if you suddenly introduce oxygen to the space. That's not good. In any event once you are halfway through your air you turn around, fire or no fire. You will leave the hose laying but not let go of it, it's the gingerbread you're going to follow out. Then the next team goes in until a team makes it to the fire and attempt to fight it. Or not. At the fire it may be obvious your buttocks aren't fighting it without serious risk. The rule there is you don't risk your life for property. Saving babies from a burning building maybe, property, no. Or the hose teams might be recalled because the captain has decided that the boat is no longer the best shelter and wants to move to the rafts. He is facing a lot of questions himself and sometimes is working with only the possibility of what might happen rather than any sure knowledge. There is a thing called a burning liquid expanding vapor explosion, a BLEVE. This is where liquids in a container are boiled and the vapors produced cant escape until such time as the pressure becomes great enough to burst the container. This is most visually exciting when the thing boiling is combustible, diesel, gas, etc. A BLEVE with a combustible can produce a fireball somewhat like a nuclear detonation but on a smaller scale. There are a lot of potential BLEVEs on a burnig boat. You also have the cargo which may or may not be dangerous in a fire. If it is dangerous you're not going to want to get a close up view of that moment what things went to hell so you're going to leave the area. Sometimes you simply cant get the crew safely out of the fumes which means the rafts may be better shelter.

Again, I haven't captained this specific vessel type. I'm also not a fireman, although I've had significant training to fight fires and been through 3 of them for 2 wins and a loss. Everyone is brave in the movies but in the real world fighting a fire on a boat has some serious pucker factor and is knee shaking stuff when it's over. Which is a good place to end this overly long post. My guesses here: They abandoned ship; an abandon ship occurs when a captain decides it is no longer safe, or possibly, might not be safe. In other words you don't have to be certain someone is going to be seriously injured or killed, you honor the possibility it might go that way. This doesn't mean the cargo is lost but if I had to lay my money down on a bet I'd place it on the lost side. Things got hairy enough on that boat that the men got off of it, that says something.

slc4s

Yeah this would be a blast. I'll take a smoke damaged unsellable track car and sign whatever it takes. (FYI - assuming it doesn't go to the bottom of the ocean I know they still never would do that)

nyca

As noted above, if they can get a support ship out to it with a proper boarding crew, they can assess the situation. If the fire was really that bad, the ship would have sunk already, every car on it has at least a gallon of gasoline in it, once the first one goes up - they all would start to blow in sequence. Not to mention the diesel tanks for the ship itself. Maybe all the Taycans are on one deck and its a battery fire contained to that area. How far is it from the nearest port that a support vessel could get out there?

FYI, check out "Disasters at Sea" on the Smithsonian channel:

https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/s...sasters-at-sea

Skarz

Quote: “If the fire was really that bad, the ship would have sunk already, every car on it has at least a gallon of gasoline in it, once the first one goes up - they all would start to blow in sequence.”

I do not think cars with a small quantity of gas “blow”. Too many movies….

slc4s

you obviously haven't watched Bad Boys or you would know....

Talkytina

So sorry to read this ...

Skarz

A great movie it was!